The Case of The Presidents Part 2: Great Moments with Mr Lincoln v. Hall of Presidents

[00:00:15] Welcome to The Supreme Resort, Land v. World, a podcast about Disneyland and Walt Disney World and which is the Supreme Resort. Each episode we will discuss and explore each resort ride by ride, land by land, park by park to determine which is better. I'm your host, Jimmy, and thank you for joining me on this quest to help the greater good of humanity answer this long elusive question, which is better, Disneyland or Walt Disney World?

[00:00:44] Joining me as always to discuss is Dan. Hi, I have my hard candies ready to go, ready to rock. And we also have Eric. Sure, yeah, I think I'm here. Okay, this listener, here's the thing. It only costs like, is it $2 a month? Maybe $5. Let's say $5. If you pay Jason $5, you get access to all kinds of- Not Jason Voorhees or Lark Voorhees.

[00:01:14] You get all kinds of additional content, including after hours, which is something that we record usually before we record these shows. Yeah. The one that's associated with this episode you may or may not ever hear. However, it will be released at some point. It's an hour supreme. It's an hour- Oh, sorry. It's an hour long with expletives. There's discussion of all kinds of prospectuses from Disney and vasectomies. Oh!

[00:01:44] And Eric getting frustrated. That's right. Yeah. Prospecti. Excuse me. I thought you were sliding into Utah. I'm really trying to catch up accents. Oh yeah, shells. Shells. Anyway, welcome to the show. This is part two of Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln versus Hall of Presidents. Because of the sensitive and solemn nature of these topics, there will be no additional sounds or any audio during this episode.

[00:02:12] It'll just be us talking because we'd like to respect the solemn- The sanctity of- Sanctity of these two attractions. So there will be no additional audio, no sounds. And- Including the sounds of our voices, yeah. Yeah, that's it. No, seriously. So we don't- I don't think we have any preamble. We just talk to each other for an hour.

[00:02:36] So if you want to hear us ramble, go listen to After Hours at patreon.com forward slash ears up. Yeah. Will we see a penny? No, we will not. No. No. Sorry. No, I see a dime. I guess context. I guess context, listen to the episode before this one. Yeah. There you go. Yeah, we go through the history. We talk about history of animation, excuse me, animation, animatronics, et cetera. Jimmy, what did you learn?

[00:03:04] No, I'm going to do what I do to Eric on Bowie's playing. Okay. What did you learn and why should they listen to the previous episode? I learned that animatronics didn't come out of nowhere. There was origins decades before audio animatronics, specifically Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln and Lincoln Robot. There was animations all the way back to like, you know, Steamboat Willie in the first sound synchronized cartoon. And they're like, hey, we could do that with other things like silly symphonies and Fantasia.

[00:03:34] And then it evolved to other things like talking birds and whatnot to get us to where we have Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln from the 64 World's Fair. Nice. And then Eric said a bunch of stuff too. Probably. Sounds like me. They don't like to be called robots. That's an important thing. They prefer not to be called robots. They will accept it for now. Please. First AI Lincoln. That's what I'm looking forward to. Oh God. Okay.

[00:04:02] So, Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln at Hall of Presidents. I think, you know what? I've changed my mind. Why don't we have point sounds just in case? Okay. I don't know if you need to download those or what needs to happen. Oh no, they're loaded. Oh good. You had time. Yeah. Okay. Then in that case, if Dan, who's arguing for Disneyland, i.e. Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln, if he says something I enjoy, you will hear this sound. Vampires are not the only things that live forever. Right. Which is of course from?

[00:04:30] The documentary, Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter. Excellent. And if Eric, who is arguing for Disney World, i.e. the Hall of Presidents, you will hear this sound. That dancing gave old Bill the women's, let me rope them little fillies. There you go. Which is of course, Eric? It's from the Golden Horseshoe Review. Oh yeah. Obviously. Wonderful. Wonderful. Wonderful. Which is, it's nearby. Yeah. It's close.

[00:05:00] It's several thousand miles and down the road. Very appropriate. Okay. So, those are the sounds. My first question before we get into the attractions themselves, because we already covered the history in a previous episode. Right. If there were to be a Hall of Presidents holiday overlay. Oh, I forgot about this. What would it be? And why?

[00:05:28] Um, Santa Taft is the easy joke. Okay. Because he's already fat. Yeah. Let me see. Holiday overlay. He doesn't even have a beard though. Oh God. No. It would be a Presidents Day. It would be a Presidents Day overlay. I was going to say, it doesn't have to be Christmas. Okay. Would, oh, I have it. I have it. Each of the Presidents, it's Halloween. Each of the Presidents would wear a mask of one of the other Presidents.

[00:05:57] Ooh, I like that. Oh. So it's still their robot bodies and faces, but they wear a different mask of other Presidents. Their favorite Presidents. Yeah. That's right. And most of them? Trump. Yeah. Ironically enough, they might. All right. Well, listener, what do you think the Hall of Presidents holiday overlay would be? What holiday would it be? And what would they do? Okay.

[00:06:23] I think it's the Presidents Day and they all, it's like, they're all celebrating their birthday. It's like, it's like they're all at like a Chuck E. Cheese kind of environment. Yeah. Yeah. With the hats, the little cone hats and the little blowers. Wee! Yeah. It's full of mirth and fun. And Andrew Jackson is just like in the corner scowling like meh. Yeah. Famously, every president was born on Presidents Day. They were. That's how you know. That's how you know your child might be a president.

[00:06:51] One of the prerequisites. On Presidents Day. And yes, it is on a different day every year. Okay. All right. So let's move on to the bulk of the show, ladies and gentlemen. We're going to begin with. We gotta do a show now. Great moments with Mr. Lincoln and Dan. Yeah. So Dan, tell us about this attraction. Well, this attraction, as we talked about, started at the 1964-65 New York World's Fair.

[00:07:20] And it eventually, you know, the fair ended and they were like, let's bring this thing to Disneyland. And so they did. The original show was kind of a, as far as I can tell, I think it was basically the same thing. Um, but they, uh, had in the pre-show, there were paintings that represented, uh, Illinois, uh, company by the States. Song is narrated by Rola, Dan and Paul freeze.

[00:07:49] Let's see. Uh, I don't know. I mean, it came to Disneyland. They put it in the Disney, in the opera house. I kind of covered it in the previous episode. Yeah, you did. You did. Yeah. Yeah. I let's, I think. Give me clips. The last. Okay. Which one? What am I playing? I'm not playing clips yet. All right. Okay. So the show, it changed. Oh, I get what you're trying to say. I get what you're trying to. Sorry.

[00:08:17] We had an hour of like insanity, which I loved and it was very funny, but I'm totally. I'm so embarrassed about what you're fine. So the original show, the original show, uh, opened July 18th, 1965. Um, they carried over from the world's fair. Was it a part of Dan? What was it part of the celebration? It's part of the 10th.

[00:08:46] I'm going to guess 10th anniversary. There you go. 10 sennial. Um, it was like the words, Dan, Disneyland's main street opera house. Uh, they used to be a lumber mill. The focus was solemn, inspirational. It was a presentation of Lincoln's words in leadership during the civil war. Uh, it was the first fully realized human audio and we're talking audio animatronic first major use of hydraulics and an animatronic figure.

[00:09:14] Uh, and hydraulic fluid is what color once again, green. It's red. Yeah. So the reason I keep asking that is once upon a time, I believe it was for the original world's fair show. Uh, he had, he's, he sprung a leak and looked like he was bleeding and it was really gruesome. And so some people, let's just say for fun that some people who were there were there

[00:09:42] when Lincoln was shot and it was traumatizing for them. Uh, I don't know if that's true or not, but let's go with it. Okay. Um, so they then went, they changed in fact, the hydraulic fluid color to clear. Um, so Dan, both of you, um, here's how I'd like to handle this because we already covered the history, right? There have been multiple iterations of each of these shows. Mm hmm.

[00:10:09] So if it's okay with you, if you're prepared for this, I'd like to have Dan do the original and then Eric do the original and then Dan do the next and Eric do it. Does that, does that work for you both? I like that. Oh, so for example, Disneyland's original version was 65 to 73. Right. So you do that and then Dan, Eric, you can do 71 to whenever. Does that, is that, are you prepared for that? No, absolutely not. Okay, great. Okay.

[00:10:35] Well, I can tell you that, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the great most Mr. Lincoln started out the pre-show had display cases with historical artifacts, uh, including a scale model of the Capitol, which is still there. Yeah. Uh, there was 16 feet memorabilia. Uh, what's that? It's 16 feet long. That one. Mm hmm. Uh, and early Lincoln portraits. Uh, there was short documentary about Lincoln's life and presidency.

[00:11:04] The narrator has been historically Paul freeze. I think, uh, I don't think that changes. And Royal Dano has been, I think all but one iteration has been the, the voice. Uh, we've talked about Paul freeze. I I'm sort of infatuated with the, the man's talent. He's the narrator for Mr. Lincoln. He's a lot of the pirates and pirates of the Caribbean. He's the narrator for the haunted mansion.

[00:11:31] He's the burger, Meister Meister, burger and Grimsley from the Santa Claus is coming to town. Also Ludwig von Drake. Von Drake. That's right. He did a lot of Disney. It's just, he's in a tremendous voice talent. Right. Um, so the, uh, let's see the tone was Solomon respectful emphasizing Lincoln struggles. Uh, you, so you go into the lobby area, you see all that stuff. Then you go into the main show where we see a composite of Lincoln's writings ending with the Gettysburg address.

[00:12:01] Um, and like I said, it was delivered by Royal Dano, uh, whom Walt really liked. It was carefully scripted to reflect Lincoln's wisdom and leadership. Uh, the animation Lincoln stood up just as coat gestured while speaking. And he sat down, uh, hydraulics powered it at the time. It was the smooth, smoothest human animatronic motion attempted.

[00:12:27] Um, some early performances had Lincoln standing mid speech or moving stiffly. The technology was still kind of, you know, young. Uh, guests exited through the lobby, which featured more historical displays about Lincoln and his presidency. Um, can I interject real quick? Um, there are two quotes that, uh, were on the exterior of the, uh, 64 world's fair. And this one I'd like to read.

[00:12:54] One of them is our defenses in the preservation of the spirit, which prizes liberty is the heritage of all men and all lands everywhere. That's in the main show. Right. This one is that, uh, Abraham Lincoln quote, as I would not be a slave. So I would not be a master. This expression, this expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this is the extent to the difference is no democracy. Hmm. Hmm. Anyway, I thought that was interesting.

[00:13:24] Go ahead, Dan. Yeah. Um, so in, uh, 1973, it's, they closed it down for a little bit to make some changes. And one of these changes involved a little something called the Walt Disney story. Um, because while Disney died in 1966 and they were like, Hey, maybe we should do this. Um, so the two kind of, at least in terms of the Disneyland or brain, I think the two become

[00:13:52] kind of connected, not like we think they're the same person, but just like, I think this, at least to me, this is just kind of conjecture on my part. I think adding this makes the Lincoln show kind of more special because it, because it really points out that like, okay, here's this person who did this, these things and who made these innovations.

[00:14:22] And now we're going to go see one of his biggest innovations. That's right. And you know, Lincoln being his favorite president and something he admired as a child in Illinois. It, it, it, yeah, very much linked. And it could also be because it's what I grew up with, but yeah, well, it could be that too. Um, but at least from that point of view, I, I do feel like it's almost like great moments that Mr. Lincoln is an extension of the Walt Disney story or a continuation of it.

[00:14:50] But, but anyway, uh, they pay tribute to Disney. Uh, they had made a few refinements to the motion and the programming for more realism. Um, but really it was just about adding the Walt Disney story. There was a short film. Uh, there was, it was, it was a documentary about Walt Disney's life narrated by Walt himself. Uh, there was a lot of footage from Marceline footage from his early career.

[00:15:20] Um, and a tribute to his legacy and let's see, people seem to like it a lot and they, uh, yeah, it stayed for a very long time. A fun fact. Yes. A similar version of the Walt Disney story opened at the magic kingdom from April 15th, 1973 until October 5th of 1992. It was a free attraction for everyone courtesy of the show's new sponsor, the Gulf oil company. Nice.

[00:15:48] Um, the speech was generally the same with a few refinements, you know, they, and I think a lot of times where this comes in as you have so many takes and so many different recordings of the voice actor that you can kind of go in and tweak it, which you might've experienced in other attractions. I know. Haunted mansion sometimes has done this historically where they, they will like bring in other takes of Paul freeze, just adding a, Hmm, or something like that.

[00:16:19] Uh, technical upgrades were improved servos for head movements, more refined hand gestures, which reduce stiffness. Um, if the guest experience was basically the same with, except that with the addition of the Walt Disney story, they exit into, uh, an expanded exhibit space that had a scale model of Disneyland, original artwork and memorabilia and some historical Lincoln artifacts.

[00:16:47] Eventually all of those, uh, Disney Disneyland stuff would go into the pre-show. Um, and then they updated great moments with Mr. Lincoln in 1975. This was, uh, due to public demand and it shifted to focus kind of more back to Lincoln. Cause I think a lot of people felt that the Walt Disney story overshadowed him, which I think it kind of always did even after this, um, as I was talking about.

[00:17:16] So we have a more historically detailed tribute to Lincoln and you know, there's again, some tech technical upgrades. Uh, his audio and electronic was upgraded with stronger hydraulics, refined programming. A pre-show film was added to flow better with Lincoln's perspective. I think that is when they added kind of a, um, transition from the Walt Disney story to great moments with Mr. Lincoln.

[00:17:41] They had that film where they should blame Gibson where he holds up the mask. He's like, yes, I turned this man into a man. Um, so, so to be very clear, great moments with Mr. Lincoln closed in 73 to make room for the Walt Disney story. So it was just the Walt Disney story for two years. Is that the case? And then that's the case. And so was a good tribute to Walt Disney. The show received a great deal of public criticism because at the time Orange County, which is

[00:18:11] predominantly heavily Republican, um, local residents were upset with the removal of Mr. Lincoln as he was the first Republican president. Oh, the attraction closed February, 1975. That's Lincoln's birthday, February 12th and reopen on June 12th as the Walt Disney story featuring great moments of Mr. Lincoln. I see golf continued to sponsor. So yeah. Um, just elephant in the room here. I listener.

[00:18:37] I, we, and we talked about in after hours, um, because of life commitments, I don't really have all the time and capacity to do all those extremely deep, deep, deep, deep. Deep, deep dives and give you a ton of history. If you want to know what it's out there, I think I'm focusing on this one more like analysis and, and, uh, it's all good. I just, I think it was just, yeah, yeah, we're good. I think it was, um, yeah. Keep going.

[00:19:07] Um, I think it's just, it's, it's sort of a famous little anecdote that, uh, Orange County being super, uh, Republican was upset that they took Lincoln out and they put him back in in 75, which is where our story continues. Okay. Um, so they re-edited, um, the speech to emphasize themes of unity and leadership.

[00:19:29] Uh, just a few minor wording adjustments here and there again, kind of like with this is like, it's like a different draft every, every time where it's like, okay, it's basically the same thing, but we can tweak it here. We can do some things here. We can do some things here. So as technology gets better and, you know, more detailed, they're able to add more details to the animatronics. So, you know, every time they, every time they shut it down or add anything or whatever, it, everything gets, you know, kind of fine tuned.

[00:19:57] Um, so again, the speech still Royal Dano, but they, you know, tweak it, they make some adjustments. And I believe if they wanted to, I mean, Royal Dano was alive still at the time. So they could just be like, Hey, get in here. You're not doing anything else. Uh, you, yeah. What the twin doesn't exist yet. Come in here.

[00:20:21] Um, and then as they exit guests, uh, they see more historical displays on Lincoln and Disney and a rotating special exhibits related to American history. Um, next up I have Jimmy's favorite version, which I will get into in more detail. Before you get there, can I talk about the Muppets controversy? Oh yeah.

[00:20:46] Oh, in the summer of 1990, Disneyland employees were informed that the Walt Disney story featuring great moments of Mr. Lincoln would be closing that August. Oh, that's right. I forgot about that. Rumors circulated that Lincoln show would be replaced by a West coast version of Muppet vision 3d, which was opening at the MGM studios. Now. Yeah. As with the closure in 1973, a significant amount of public outcry saved the attraction.

[00:21:12] The Los Angeles times quoted Disneyland spokesperson, Paul Goldman better Paul. If you'd asked a few years ago, I'd have said that being a 25 year old attraction, its popularity has passed, but there seems to be a lot of sentiment for Lincoln. Muppet vision 3d of course found its way to California adventure ever so briefly. Uh, that version closed in 2014.

[00:21:38] Totally forgot about that, but that, that, that, what that brought back for me was when I went to Disney world the first time in 96, I think. Um, that was floating. And then when I went to see Muppet vision, I was like, I, I'm going to see this thing that is apparently going to replace Lincoln.

[00:22:00] And then at the end, when they break the, you know, when the theater is broken and you see into the, the courtyard that was the Muppet courtyard, I immediately thought like, they're going to change main street to like be that. Cause I was dumb and I didn't realize that they absolutely would not have done that. They would have just been like, you know, it's from Disney world. What do you want?

[00:22:25] Um, Eric, do you have anything to throw in here or should I keep, should I keep going? Let's about, about your, your history. I mean, no, just in general, just like, is it your turn to give the original version? Cause I think Dan's kind of here's, here's my take on it is the original version world's fair to Disneyland, a brief closure. And then up to 2001 was largely the same show. Yeah. And then it changes significantly.

[00:22:54] And yeah, which I want to talk about, uh, similar speech, similar stuff, better animatronics, whatever, but it's basically Walt Disney. It's Abe Lincoln. And then it dramatically changes in 2001. Eric, can you present, uh, that sort of original show and then any kind of stopping point for you before we get to 2001? Oh gosh. Well, yeah, the, your attention, please.

[00:23:19] An American idea. An American idea. An American idea. The show, we've already covered some of the, the history of, of this in the previous episode, but. But I don't think you actually talked about the show itself and the original iteration. You're right. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:50] Um, ultimately, um, this was, uh, this is a, a show that is, uh, it's, it's, it's patriotic to the, the utmost. Um, I don't know. Um, I'm, I'm more prepared to talk about like the, the set up. The current version. Hmm.

[00:24:19] The current version of the show. Well, yeah. Uh, we've got a queue. We've got, we've got. We've got. We've got.

[00:24:50] We've got. We've got a queue. We've got a queue. Um, you know, the origins of Liberty street and Edison square and that what became, um, the carousel of progress and one nation under God, which was the original idea of the hall of presidents. And the show opened in 71, right? Right. All the presidents. Oh yeah. Um, I think the original story was Abe and Abe spoke and Washington spoke and it wasn't until the nineties where Clinton lended his voice.

[00:25:18] Since then, every president, every president in power or, you know, in office. Yeah. Lended their voice in a new robot, et cetera. Well, and that I think speaks to that definitely speaks to the Clinton. Campaign and presidency. And at the same time, just the nineties and Disney. Sure.

[00:25:41] So that'd be an interesting story, but, um, but the original version, the president at the time would be Richard Nixon. Is that right? And then it would have been Jimmy Carter would have been added. Then Reagan would have been added and then Bush senior. Right. And then Clinton, which is the first, first voice, which is interesting to think about. Uh, you know, today's versions. Like, of course the president speaks that president, but there were three presidents prior to Clinton that did not. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:10] And I think that they, they wouldn't have the leadership and Disney wouldn't have been inclined to ask them. And I think also that this leadership wouldn't have been inclined to ask those presidents. Meaning that, yeah. Meaning that like at the time Clinton was like the cool, like president who played the saxophone on our city hall, even though, you know, his policies ended up being basically Reagan.

[00:26:36] Um, I, it, it, it, it, it, it. Democrat Reagan. Well, yeah. I mean, so I would argue no difference, but, um, more charming, more hip, more willing to hang out with our San Diego hall. Charming. Okay. You know what I mean? Like charming. I don't know. I shouldn't say that.

[00:26:59] In his own way, but I think that it's, it, it fits with that time period very perfectly that it would be like, well, why don't we have Bill Clinton speak? Well, because. That makes sense. Okay. Because they didn't envision like a Trump speak.

[00:27:13] Well, let's, let's, let's just go back to this and, and say that, uh, yeah, uh, we had, we finally had presidents that, uh, that, that, uh, voiced a, like a speech. They, they gave a speech that was put into their robots and this was their thing.

[00:27:41] This was their statement for the next four to eight years. This is a big deal. Um, and do you have those speeches? Oh, which one do you want? Well, I'm just curious if you have those. Oh, I do. I thought you might. Okay. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. All right, let's do it. The first, this is what I'm talking about. We talk about iterations of the show. This is what I mean. Yeah. I did forget also, I need to go back.

[00:28:10] I did forget to mention that they, in this iteration of the Lincoln show that I just talked about, added a certain song, Jimmy. Bill Clinton. Um, so, so here's what I'd like to do. And, and I get where you're, where you're going, Dan, but we're still talking about the past. I can't get points for the past. No, I know. You're talking about two brothers. So yeah. If you want to get that one ready, just for, well, you know what? That that's, that's a, that's an Epcot thing.

[00:28:39] And that is not a, no, that's not true. Great moments of Mr. Lincoln. It's in there. Well, you know what started that only, only after it was in the American adventure to be fair. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So here's what I want to do moving forward. Um, Eric, you're going to go through Clinton's speech and then Dan's going to go to, well, I guess Clinton and then Bush Jr. I got, I got, I got, I got, I got to, yeah.

[00:29:07] And then Dan is going to go to 2001 evolution of Lincoln. And then we'll go back and forth with speeches and evolution. Okay. Yes. Great. So Eric's going to give us the, the first actual recording of a president in hall of presidents, president William Jefferson Clinton. And you must do the accent. No. Okay.

[00:29:38] Oh my goodness. It's two paragraphs. Four scores. My fellow citizens. My fellow citizens. We are the heirs of the great American revolution. As this millennium draws to a close and the 21st century approaches, let us pause to honor this very idea of America.

[00:30:05] America mirrors the world's diversity, yet it remains united in the, in the, uh, struggle to uphold fundamental freedoms. We believe our nation's happiness still evolves from Liberty, from opportunity. And from the vision of equality set forth by the country's declaration of independence.

[00:30:31] And today our nation stands as a symbol of freedom and in inspiration to people all over the world. There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right with America. And there is nothing wrong with the world that cannot be cured by the ideals that America represents. Those principles have no borders. Others.

[00:30:58] And we look forward to a day when those principles extended beyond our borders will have circled the, the globe, the quest for democracy must continue until all of the people of the world. This is a long speech. The, the people of the world, um, enjoy the freedom.

[00:31:26] We must enjoy. Always fight to preserve the spirit of America is bright and hopeful, hopeful today as it was in July of 1776. And we are ready to carry our great nation nation's experiment forward into the next millennium. Wow.

[00:31:51] I, the reason I want to hear these is I'm very curious to hear the evolution of these speeches and see how similar they are. So like there was, there was a lot about freedom, equality, uh, happiness, independence. That was interesting. That was sort of the highlighted phrases I got or worse. Yeah. Some of those, those words are going to be the same in, in W's, uh, speech too. I'm just curious. It'd be curious to hear the contrast one after the other. So despite the diversity, we still manage. Right.

[00:32:21] And open and, you know, and bringing people in embracing. And every other country needs to follow our system of government. Right. Government. Yeah, sure. That, that, that thing. Anyway. All right. Well, let's, uh, since we're not to 2001 yet, let's, uh, hear what, uh, W has to say. W accent. My fellow Americans. There you go. Sure.

[00:32:48] When we look back on the history of this country, we see a record of almost unwell. Unbelievable energy, sacrifice, hard work of impossible dreams that our ancestors dreamed and made real. We see injustice too, that weighs on our hearts even today. But for injustice, there has always been a voice crying out to write it. And America has always listened to those voices.

[00:33:18] We are listening today. And perhaps it falls to us, to this first generation of the 21st century Americans to say once and for all that no child, no race, no creed, no ethnic committed community will ever again be left out of the American dream. Wow.

[00:33:40] Through education, through the opportunity to work, to enjoy the fruits of that work, we can enjoy, uh, every opened door, every, uh, expand the horizons of all Americans. Again and again, we return to the same simple principles, freedom, equality, the freedom to create, to prosper, to dream.

[00:34:09] Equality becomes the law in the workplace and a chance for a better life. And each time in the process, America grows stronger. The beacon of democracy grows brighter. The world with new astonishment at what free people can do. We, the people are just getting started. So that one also had freedom and equality. It talked about sacrifice.

[00:34:39] It talked about dreams, writing injustices, basically no child left behind was in there. Yep. Expanding horizons for all. Yeah. It's very similar. Sure. Equality. Yeah. Pre, pre nine 11. That was pre nine 11. That's kind of interesting to think. Cause it really, it really is just, uh, basically no child left behind. And, and, and extend extending that to like general domestic policy.

[00:35:09] Yeah. But I, the reason I'm asking to do this is just, I'm curious to see how much of their policies. Right. Are reflected in these speeches. And I did hear no child left behind. Yeah. Uh, but, but generally it's freedom, equality, inclusion. Uh, there's nothing about diversity per se, other than writing injustices and other things. So it's kind of, kind of curious to see how this evolves. Uh, but now we go into the two thousands. Uh, that speech was recorded before nine 11.

[00:35:39] Uh, and now we're going to go back to Disneyland to yes. My favorites, not the right word. Favorite in that. I don't want it back, but favorite in that it was just glorious at the time. This is a 2001 to 2005 journey to Gettysburg. Right. So before we get there, I need to go through basically what the show, the 75 to 2001 show experience was like mainly as a compare and contrast. Um, and Eric, I hope you have two brothers ready.

[00:36:06] Um, I, uh, so I, yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So, you know, you go to the great moments, uh, with Mr. Disney segment and they say, this was his office. That's a bird. Look at this over here. And then this is a camera. And then you go over to the next segment and they say, here's the capital that's built out of toothpicks. That's not true. It's not really built out of toothpicks, but, and then here's Lego.

[00:36:33] Like here's a movie in which Blaine Gibson holds up a mask and says, this is a mask. And Walt Disney goes, it sure is. And they open the doors and they say, who wants to see the thing? And then like eight people are like, I do. And they go in and they sit down and then the cast member who's operating the doors scolds everybody indirectly about how they will not laugh at this. They will not make weird mechanical noises. They never said that, but I was going to say of those.

[00:37:03] Those eight people, two of them were Dan and I. Yeah. They will not heckle the show with weird commentary. Hydraulic noises. Dan, would you like to please regale the audience with, as Mr. Lincoln was moving and speaking, Dan would make the following sounds. It's so much more fun. At some point we need to get to my favorite part of the speech. Yeah.

[00:37:33] And I don't know, did we ever say it out loud, Dan? No, we never said it out loud. We knew better than to say it out loud. So here's the line. By the way, the speech as it exists today is the same as it was before 2001. Yeah. It's a compilation of different speeches. Do you have that? What the different speeches are, Dan? I don't. I don't. It's not necessary. Yeah. But anyway, Lincoln never gave this speech, right? These are all snippets from speeches he gave over the years. Right. It's the greatest hits. Not including the Gettysburg Address, which we'll get to.

[00:38:03] Yeah, we sure will. But it's a lot about, you know, basically what's going to tear us apart as a nation is not coming from outside. It's coming from inside. Yeah. Which is just weird. I mean, why would anyone think that, right? Huh. Quite profound. Yeah. Um, but, but the actual line is, if this conflict ever reach us, it must spring from amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. Right.

[00:38:33] I.e. the internal struggle. If we're going to destroy us, it's going to be us that destroys ourselves. Right. Again, prophetic, but. I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about. Uh, oh, that's, I forget which, which. No, I'm done with that. I just. Um, but yeah. No, we're done with that. If it ever reaches us, it must spring from amongst us. Can it come from a woman? Can it come from a woman? One of us would say it beneath our breath and Lincoln responds, it cannot come from abroad.

[00:39:04] We were 10 years old. Oh gosh. Still funny. So the show, the show was, the show was basically, you know, drum roll and the, the, the, the, the curtains open up and you see this screen that is barely a screen. It's more like a giant picture frame. And first time people, people watching the show for the first time would inevitably say to themselves, is this it?

[00:39:35] But no, it wasn't. And they would show a little thing about what was the civil war, what was going on. And, and, and this was, I believe in addition because they added a little song from the American adventure. Oh. And it goes a little something like this. Two brothers on their way. Two brothers on their way. Two brothers on their way. Two brothers on their way.

[00:40:02] Written and recorded specifically for Disneyland. One war blue and one war gray. And no other, no other part. One war blue and one war gray. So yes, it's, it's totally for Epcot. As they marched along the way. It is for Epcot. Uh, and I think I'm sorry, I'm not, I'm not trying to steal credit for this at all.

[00:40:24] I'm just pointing out that in there, I'm not in there, uh, re doing reconsidering of the show. They were, they were able to bring in other elements, um, from the American adventure, by the way. Uh, I have another, uh, there's the alternate version of that. If you're ready. If you're not, I can vamp. Oh, I'll just load it. Hang on. Yeah, no, I, we got it. I can, I'm just, I'm getting a heads up.

[00:40:54] Um, load all this stuff. It's fine. Alternate. Alternate. Yeah. If you want it now. Yeah. Sure. Let's do it. Here we go. Did you know that this existed? The civil war tore a nation in half from cities to villages, from families to brothers. This is the letterman. David Letterman's brothers. Of course. To fight and die for what they believe in.

[00:41:23] You know, it reminds me of the mighty wind. Blue or green. Oh yeah. All were Americans. Two brothers on their way. Whoa. Two brothers on their way. Yeah, this is totally mighty wind. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:54] Yeah. I can see Harry Shearer and, um, what's his name? Oh, Michael McKeon? No, Michael McKeon and, uh, and the other guy. Uh, Christopher Guest. Christopher Guest. Christopher Guest, yeah. So good. Wow. Wow. Wow. So yeah. Um, so I had no idea that this was not an original song.

[00:42:21] And so then they do that and it was effective and it gave us an idea of what exactly the civil war. I'm going to say something really stupid. Um, it gave us a sort of a visceral feeling in case we didn't already understand it of what that war kind of did. Um, and it left us with this, this feeling of like, oh no, when am I going to see the Lincoln thing?

[00:42:47] And then they go back to more speeches and paintings. It's the, it's very Ken Burns. It's the, it's very Ken Burns. He sort of, you know, swiping over paintings. Um, and then they, they, they finished the, the, that portion of it. And then the curtains close again. And Paul freeze gets on the mic. He's like, who's ready to see some shit.

[00:43:16] No, it's basically they, they more or less in a tone that is fitting for the presentation and say, okay, get ready. Hold on to your butts. This is going to be awesome. Wow. And the whole thing opens up and you see Abraham Lincoln there sitting in his chair. And when he stands up, it's like, like God choir sings. Yeah.

[00:43:42] It's, it is, it's cheesy, but it's, it's effective. It's effective. Right. So he does his little speech in which we make electronic sounds and little snippy comments. And then that's, that's that. So that was that show. Um, then they decide to a little bit, it mostly, it mostly is that now. Yeah. Um, and then they said, you know what we need?

[00:44:07] We need to gussy up this show and make it so cool and so relevant and so hip. And you know what the kids really like? They like binaural sound. Yes. And headphones. They sure do. And sharing headphones with people. Yeah. Mmm. Dirty headphones. Yeah. They came up with a little something called the journey to Gettysburg. Now this opened. Ear buds mind. Headphones. Headphones. Yes. And that was 2001.

[00:44:37] The little foamy stuff that goes over your ears. Yeah. So it was launched July 17th, 2001. And everyone was so, I remember at the time this was internets were happening then. And I was kind of, you know, paying attention to a little bit. It's like, what's good. What's it going to be? This is going to be amazing. And they promised something amazing. Like this is just going to blow your mind. It's going to be interactive. It's going to be like, it's going to just, it's going to rock your world.

[00:45:04] We're like, Oh my God, I think Lincoln's going to like blow you or something. Sorry. Wow. And then, so, so guests are introduced to civil war photographer, Matthew Brady. And we started, we start with a little bit. I don't, I'm going off. By the way, it's also in the American adventure. Right. Oh, right. So we get into the, the, so after the Walt Disney story, they, which is weird because

[00:45:32] it's like, okay, here's this new thing, but they still have the Walt Disney story. After you see all of that stuff, they roll out a rack of headphones. Like it's an elementary school. They say, come get your headphones. Do we have a headphone monitor for every group? Okay. Everyone grabs their headphones with a weird look on their face. Like, why are we doing this?

[00:46:01] And they put them on. They put them on. And then after they put them on the Lincoln keeper or the cast member gets on the microphone and says, can everyone hear me? Raise your hand. If you can't hear me, you should be able to hear me through both ears. Can you all hear me clearly through both ears? And everyone nods. Maybe someone would raise their hand and they'd switch them out and they'd be like, okay, how

[00:46:31] about now? No, I can't. Okay. Glad I can't. This is the precursor. This is the precursor to VR. And then they open the doors and you walk in and you hear them in your headphones and say, okay, come on in. You're not going to laugh at this show. It's somber and it's very important. It's very real. And, and then you take your headphones off for a little bit to, cause like you're probably wondering, are they not using the speakers in the room? Nope.

[00:47:01] They aren't. It's just their headphones. Oh no. And then it begins. You sit down and the wackiness begins. No. Yes. You are. Yes. You are. Private Cunningham. Yeah. Right. Right. They give you that speech. They're like, okay, you are private Cunningham. This is your life. This is who you are.

[00:47:29] And everyone in the audience is like, these are a lot of conceits, but okay, I'll go with you. And then they introduce you to Matthew Brady, who is the first and most important photographer. He's basically like the, he's the Davis Mark Davis of photographers. Best ever. Yes.

[00:47:58] And he's like, okay, Hey, welcome to my studio. Um, and there's, you know, some, there's some pictures that, you know, Ken Burns style float along on the screen, but it's mainly an audio experience. And he comes up like, hi, I'm Matthew Brady. Uh, I'm going to take a picture. This is very important. I love you very much. You, you are private. You are private Cunningham. Hello, private Cunningham. I'm Matthew Brady. I'm a photographer. Let me just, let me just blow some things off for you here.

[00:48:27] Let me just, okay, hold on. Okay. You got that. Okay. Now let me kiss you. Hold on. There's something on your forehead. Let me, let me, let me, let me just clean up. He's not wrong. By the way. I really, I really wish I had experienced this. I wish you had to.

[00:48:56] He's like, Hey, you know what? Before you get your picture taken, better get a haircut. Oh yeah. We're going to get a haircut. They go snip, snip, but they have actual scissors. Hold on. Do you have, do you have, do you have clips? Oh, you can't find anything about it. Are you sure? It's been scoured from the internet. Yeah. I, you sent me a whole bunch of clips. What, what do you want me to play?

[00:49:22] Those are other versions of two brothers in case I feel like I'm backed into a corner and I need to use. Oh, okay. Um, but, uh, yeah. So, so Dan, what did it sound like to get a haircut? Uh, I don't have, hold on. Uh, but yeah, so basically it would cut, it was binaural sound. So it's, you know, it's ASMR or whatever. And yeah. And cutting your hair, you can hear that precursor to stitches great escape. Right.

[00:49:50] Or the, uh, similar to the alien encounter. Right. Well, and then, but both less scary and more scary. Yeah. Oh my goodness. And then, and then he shows you a step on one side, step, step. And he's like, Oh, okay. Got that one. Okay. Then. We got that. Let me put some powder. Let me put some powder on your face.

[00:50:19] And then, and then he says, okay. Hey, before you, Oh, Oh, look who's here. It's Abraham Lincoln. Voiced by Warren Burton this time. So Abraham Lincoln is in the room getting a haircut with you. Right. Oh, and you hear him. He, he, you hear him walk on the wall, on the wood floor. Oh, I hope I don't get assassinated in the near future.

[00:50:47] And he's like, Oh, Mr. President, would you like, yeah. Would you like for me to shove this peon out on the street so I could take your picture now? It's like, no, no, I'm a very modest man. I'm honest, honest Abe, you know, hold on. Let me get to know. Private Cunningham. Is that what you said your name is? Hello, private Cunningham. It's so nice to meet you. I'm Abraham Lincoln. And he's like, hold on. Let me.

[00:51:13] Oh, well, I'll just wait here. You know, my, my wife is, is on a depression medication. So let's just now. I'll, I'll just wait here in the corner. Weirdly. While you get your picture taken, they get your picture taken and then you are in combat. And that's when lights happen. There's, you hear it in binaural sound and there's so many things happening.

[00:51:43] You also like a meeting with president and voiced by Warren Burton. And then you go into a battlefield scenario where you, private Cunningham is surrounded by battle. And there's red lights that go off in the corner to symbolize that battle is happening. And then you get wounded. And, and then many red lights happen because you pain, you, you get pain happening to you.

[00:52:09] And then all of a sudden you wake up and there's this nurse there. And she says, private Cunningham, I love you very much. And you're very important. Hold on. Let me just kiss it and make it better. Oh, there's some soot on your face. Hold on. So I thought you weren't going to make it. I'm so happy to see you.

[00:52:38] And, and all this time you see this angelic face on the screen in front of you and it's, it's the nurse. And, and then she's like, Oh wait, who's this? What's happening? And then Abraham Lincoln walks into the infirmary. It's like, hello, I'm Abraham Lincoln. Hear me walking on the floor. Here are the flies buzzing. Here I am. Oh wait. Aren't, aren't you private Cunningham? Yeah. I remember you from Mr. Brady's office. Because you can't.

[00:53:06] And he just remembers you from the things like I've been thinking about you because you're the most important person in the story. Hold on. Wow. And he's, he's inspiring you and he's saying, you need to, I'm going to, I'm about to go give a very important speech, perhaps the most important speech of my lifetime. You may have heard of it. It's called the kiddies. You know, that, that one hit song that I did.

[00:53:36] Oh gosh. Oh my goodness. You should come with me as my guests. And you do. Dan. Wait, back to the haircut. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Oh. Listener, I'm only joking a little bit about this, some of these details. Very little. Um, then you go see him speak. Wait, wait, but before you had to get your leg amputated. Oh, that's right.

[00:54:07] Oh no. So then you probably go to see him deliver the Gettysburg address at where Gettysburg. No, it's just this weird, like nebulous. A pavilion in an empty space. Yeah. And he's communicating.

[00:54:32] And though his mouth is moving, he's apparently communicating with you telepathically because he, by norley inside of your head. That's right. So slightly before you see his mouth. Abraham Lincoln is speaking to you through both years. That's right. And, and if you're like me, you take the headphones off to be like, surely they're using the speakers for this. So it's not weird. Nope. Oh my goodness.

[00:55:02] And this version, how Eric, how long do you think this version lasted? Uh, 10 years. That's not a bad guess based on leadership at the time. It only lasted for four years, which I would say is three years too long. Yeah. Uh, Lincoln, uh, uh, his, his figure got upgraded. His beard was lengthened to match his age. Uh, also got a pair of eyeglasses. Okay.

[00:55:32] And a small paper in his hand. Oh, a paper. And it ended with the paper. Look at my hands. Hold the thing. It ended with a rendition of the battle hymn of the Republic. Um, the audience was baffled and not in a way. What? Why would they be baffled? And it doesn't sound right at all.

[00:56:03] I wouldn't say awestruck as much as I would say. Confused. Wow. Dude, they're just clapping. Yeah. The entire performance is just clapping. Yeah. And then in 2005, it closed. Lincoln closed altogether. Yeah. And it didn't reopen until 2009. That's true. Right.

[00:56:33] So since we're now at 2009, unless you wanted to talk about the first 50 magical years, Dan. Uh, no, I mean, except other than to just say that like, they didn't just close it. They used the theater for a celebration of the 50 magical years. Right. But Lincoln was not. Great moments in 2009. Yeah.

[00:57:03] But before we do that, we have to then hear about the newest president 2008, which was Barack Obama and his speech. Unless you have anything else, Eric. Oh, well, here's, yeah. Here's Barack Obama's speech. The American dream is as old as our founding, but as timeless as our hopes. It is reborn every day in the heart of every child who wakes up in a land of limitless possibilities in a country where we, the people means all the people.

[00:57:32] We may come from different places and believe different things, but what makes us American is a shared spirit, a spirit of courage and determination of kindness and generosity. It is a spirit grounded in the wisdom of the generations that have gone before us, but open to the unimagined discoveries and possibilities on the horizon that lies ahead.

[00:58:00] Let us enjoy it, cherish it, defend it, and pass it on to our children as the bright and beautiful blessing that it is this enduring American dream. So that one was about the American dream reborn every day. We, the people, diversity, the spirit, kindness, wisdom, generosity. Yeah. So, you know, generic, right? You know, yeah. Yeah.

[00:58:28] They're, they're, they're all kind of generic, but yeah. He didn't say anything about, I think W had a little bit about no child left behind, which is a little bit about his platform policy. Yeah. But you know, there was nothing about freedom or inequality or equality. Sorry. What's that? Nothing, nothing. But you know, American dream, dream is kind of a thing, but there was specifics about diversity, that sort of thing. But yeah, it was fairly generic and bland, right? Yeah. Yeah. Kind of.

[00:58:58] All right. So Eric, I don't want to cut you off and I don't want to take away from what you've done. So I'm, I'm just progressing with the show. And if there's something I'm skipping over, stop me. What, what, what, what do you want to skip over? Well, and I'm going, I'm going chronologically. Now we're in 2009 with the Disneyland story presenting great moments to Mr. Lincoln, which is basically from 2009 until today. While we're waiting. While we're waiting, let's go ahead and listen to clip one.

[00:59:26] Oh, I was going to say, I'll play the intro to the hall of presidents, but. Oh, that'd be good too. Yeah. Here, while I bring up clip one, which is the intro to your thing. Ah, I did bad at that. Now it's just playing in my headphones instead of yours. Oh, just like the show. Yep. You're really trying to live this journey to Gettysburg show.

[00:59:55] My goodness. So to finish, to finish out this episode, I'm not saying we're closing, but just now we've kind of gotten to. We're long from being done with this episode. We're the Disneyland version. We're kind of up to modern day. So now is like point time, right? Okay. So get us to modern day, however you need to get there, Eric, so we can start discussing which is a better attraction, which I don't know if we're going to get there. I can't imagine.

[01:00:24] Well, here's an intro to the hall of presidents. Great. It is 1783 and the smoke is clearing in the wake of the Revolutionary War. Over the course of eight grinding years, General George Washington has led a force of shopkeepers, farmers, and Native American allies to victory over the greatest military power in the world.

[01:00:50] So we're talking about how America was awesome and diverse against the Brits. Here's what Dan has to go against this argument. I'm not. This is not a criticism. I don't know what this clip is. I'm just. Oh. Delightful.

[01:01:22] Two brothers. There's another version of two brothers. It's not by an internet person. Two brothers on their way. So. One more blue and one more gray. The beat drops. It's amazing. So then we get to Disneyland story. The Disneyland story, not the Walt Disney story, presenting Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln. Uh-huh.

[01:01:50] Reopened in December 18th, 2009. I believe that this was also kind of when Disney decided that like, okay, Walt Disney might not be the IP to go with anymore. Maybe Disneyland itself is. Okay. This is about that time that they started theming things to Disneyland, like the hotel and everything. Um, so it has exhibits of, of Disneyland history.

[01:02:17] And it also had a shorter version of the film that they used to show in the theater featuring Steve Martin. Um, they added a new animatronic figure. Wait, Stephen Martin? Stephen, Mr. Stephen Martin. Stephen Martin. Okay. Okay. A new animatronic figure delivering the speech that blends excerpts from his autobiography and the Gettysburg address. Stephen Martin delivering the Gettysburg address. No, Stephen Martin was only in the video for Disneyland. Oh, okay.

[01:02:47] This was, it's basically, it's, it's very, it's, it's essentially the same show, um, that we talked about. And you don't wear headphones. You just have to use the speakers like a loser. And, um, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's basically just a return to form in a lot of ways. Okay. Um, now it has, it is closed currently.

[01:03:12] Oh, because they're going to build them a Walt Disney. I mean, a Walt thing. Okay. Yeah. And apparently it's going to be on a turntable so that it can be the Walt Disney good time Chuck E. Cheese magic band hour. Um, some part of the day and then Lincoln, the other part of the day.

[01:03:36] Um, this is certainly a discussion to be had if we want to have it perhaps on another episode, perhaps on this one, I'm predicting that the Walt Disney animatronic lasts a solid year at the most. And then they figure out that they are tired of telling people not to go up on stage and get their picture taken with Walt Disney. Okay. Okay.

[01:03:59] And they are also tired of hearing people complain about how Walt Disney wouldn't have allowed himself to be an animatronic, even though he probably absolutely would. Yeah. I think you've, yeah, you're right. I think they've already announced that it's going to be a year of Walt only. And then it will rotate. I don't think it's going to rotate. I think it's just going to be Lincoln. And I think that the Walt thing is going to be back there. Hey, do you know who the Hall of Presidents has?

[01:04:28] Calvin Coolidge. Uh-huh. Okay. Now, just saying, we have more. So this is why you had so many audio issues. Was it worth it? Was it worth it? I think it was. Was it worth it? I think it was. Is it worth it? Listener. Yes. Let's listen to Chester A. Arthur's name again. Chester A. Arthur.

[01:04:58] Uh-huh. Okay. Chester A. Arthur. You might hear that as a point sound at some point in the near future. No, we're speaking of points. We're not doing points. I think we've gotten to a point where I need to, I mean, for the listener, for myself, I need to figure out which one of these is better. So let's start arguing for why your attraction is better than the other. Is that a thing? Is that a thing?

[01:05:27] Are they just too different from each other to even be compared? Why is Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln better than Hall of Presidents? Why is Hall of Presidents better than Mr. Lincoln? Go. Okay. Hang on. Before Dan says anything. And again, I don't want to take anything away from your research. Tell me about your research. But let's get to the point. We're at the end of my research, I think. Yeah. Before Dan impugns himself here.

[01:05:57] Franklin D. Roosevelt. Okay. Which is famously the most Disney president. True. That we discovered last year. True. I think my argument actually kind of goes in a similar direction. What? Franklin D. Roosevelt? It's a similar sort of thematic thing. How about this one? James K. Polk. While we're doing this, why don't you play clip two if you have it? I do have.

[01:06:27] I do have clip two. Hang on. Okay. Jimmy, here's one of many reasons why. Here's a Dan argument. Dan. Okay. All right. For the love of God. Okay.

[01:06:55] Are all of your clips two brothers? All of the clips. All the ones labeled clip. Yes, they are. So, okay. Go ahead. Sorry. So, Eric, please get the closing statement file ready and whenever you're ready to play it. Do I need to get clip three ready before the closing statement? No. That's going to be comedically after the fact, I think. But I do want to acknowledge, Dan, that I appreciate how much I love that song. Uh-huh. And how much effort you put into doing that for me. Right.

[01:07:25] I want to acknowledge that. Okay. So. Continue. All right. Here's Dan's closing statement. Okay. Just leave it. It's going to be quiet at first. Um, I think that in terms of appropriateness and being fitting. Yeah, that's exactly what's going to happen. Um, great moments with Mr. Lincoln. You son of a bitch. It fits the space that it's in and the time that we find ourselves in.

[01:07:53] Perhaps more fittingly than the Hall of Presidents. Sure, the Hall of Presidents is a spectacle and it is a realization of a dream that the Imagineers once had. But what has become of the American dream? The American dream leads us to a place where we find ourselves wondering what the American dream is.

[01:08:24] I would argue that the Hall of Presidents would in fact be the better and more fitting attraction had they had never crossed that line. Allowing one William Jefferson Clinton to speak in animatronic form.

[01:08:42] Hence opening the door, setting us a precedent to future generations of presidents who may be controversial, may be loved. But in our current setting have become increasingly divisive regardless of our American journey. That was well timed.

[01:09:22] What I have to say about this. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what you have to say, Eric. Jimmy? It doesn't matter. Go ahead. Here's what I have to say. Talk away, buddy. Talk away. Here's what I have to say. William Howard Taft.

[01:09:52] Okay, I'll counter you with that. Click it up. I don't remember that president. An American idea. Oh, because that was the original version that ended with Nixon.

[01:10:14] By the way, listener, listen to Spectral Radio because he has that version, the entirety of the original Hall of Presidents that ends with Richard Nixon. It's so jarring when you're listening. The last president. Last president. Richard M. Nixon. Like the end. Richard M. Nixon. Yeah, it's like, okay, and Jimmy Carter. We're done. No.

[01:10:41] Okay, so Dan, I want to hear more from Eric, but. Yeah, while we're doing that, Eric, can you just get clip three ready? Oh, no. Oh, no. I think you nailed it. Okay, hang on. I got to find out what clip three is. So, but really, my argument is essentially that it works well as a thing to have in the opera house at Main Street, at Disneyland, because it is tied to Walt Disney.

[01:11:10] It's Walt's Park. It's Walt's Park. It's Walt's childhood hero. Yeah, his childhood hero. It's Walt's first robot, the first robot human ever. His accomplishment, it symbolizes, I mean, forgetting the Lincoln aspect of it. If it was, if one of the first things of this type that he did was, I don't know, Immanuel Kant or something, it would still be like, wow, he really liked this guy. And this was a really, this was an innovative thing.

[01:11:40] And yeah, it's, it's not the most fitting thing, but some would argue that if you're going to celebrate the life and the achievement of a figure like Walt Disney, an American icon, an American dreamer, an American, someone might say hero. Original. An American original. Oh, sure.

[01:12:08] You might want to go with Colonel Sanders or perhaps Orville Redenbacher or even Little Debbie. Why am I helping you? Is Little Debbie actually a real person? I say to you, no. Is she really little? She is actually big, big Deborah. She's seven feet tall. After eating all her cakes. After eating all her cakes. She's very fit, but very large.

[01:12:41] Swole. Swole Debbie. No, but I think. She can bench, she can bench Dan. She benches Wendy on a regular basis. Oh my God. All right. So. What is this show? All right. Dan, what is clip three? Well, hold on. Let him get to his point. Okay. Get to your point. By the way, you've already made your argument as far as I'm concerned.

[01:13:11] Right. And I just want to, I do think that. I mean, without getting into a political place where I'm talking about where I get into how like the presidency should have, should not be as big of a deal as it has become whatever. We're not going to have great moments with Mr. Congress, right? It's, it's still a thing.

[01:13:34] Um, I think that we are living in a consequence of no matter who goes to see the hall of presidents now, no matter who the president is. Half the audience. I don't want to get it into the half. And I don't believe it's actually, I mean, a third of the audience is going to violently hate it. And the other third is going to like, love it to an extreme degree.

[01:14:03] Regardless of who the president is. That's right. And that's not a problem with the show necessarily as much as it is a symptom of where we are now. Yeah. But that's the argument we're making is where we are now, right? Right. We can only argue for today. So I want to say something before I get back to Eric. It was, you nailed it intentionally, unintentionally.

[01:14:29] You nailed it when you said the bit about Bill Clinton lending his voice. Right. I believe everything you just said, well, at the end of the day, everything you just said, the Matterhorn is the spiritual successor of Expedition Everest. They did it better. Guardians of the Galaxy is the spiritual successor to Space Mountain. They did it better.

[01:14:59] Hall of Presidents is the spiritual successor to Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln. And technically, Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln is really just the first iteration of Hall of President. But in order to do that, you have to ignore what Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln is. Like in terms of like its connection to Walt Disney and the company and innovation. But those are nuances to argue for why Lincoln is better. Right.

[01:15:25] But what I'm saying is based on those things, Eric, can you argue that Hall of Presidents did Lincoln better? Okay. Dan, what is clip three before I play it? Two Brothers. Let's play it. Oh, fuck. Hold on. Two Brothers on the day. It's just another.

[01:15:54] Two Brothers on the day. I had these in the chamber just in case Eric was really beating me up in the argument. And I would just be ready to go. Be like, hey, Jimmy, listen to this. It's another Two Brothers. One more blue and one more blue. But Eric, do you get the point in that what Dan said is exactly right? The trouble with the Hall of Presidents today is our political climate. Right.

[01:16:24] And the divisive nature of our political climate. Because, by the way, because of the 24-hour news media and how it's a business that needs to sell fear because of social media and the algorithms that are driving divisiveness, they're driving hatred, they're driving fear. And whatever it is that you subscribe to or subscribe to, it's going to come to you.

[01:16:49] Like, your belief systems are going to be completely, continuously driven to you. You don't have to find your truth. Your truth is going to find you. Because of our society today, Hall of Presidents will be divisive. Okay. As an example here, I'm going to pull up my truth social and I'll tell you. No, Jesus. All right. Go ahead, Eric. Damn it. All right.

[01:17:16] Here are the things that make the Hall of Presidents. I barely talked this episode. Sorry. At this point. Hey, listen, not for a lack of me going to you to make arguments. Okay. It's not that you didn't have an opportunity. I kept giving you opportunity. Yeah. And here we are. Well, I thought it was funnier to have Dan talk. All right. Go ahead. But anyway. Okay.

[01:17:45] Outside of the building, we've talked about Liberty Square before. You've talked about this with Jason. You tried to make an argument and... I still contend that Liberty Square is better than New Orleans Square. I completely agree.

[01:18:00] Thank you. You also legitimately think that New Orleans Square is better.

[01:18:29] New Orleans Square is not better. Okay. Well, we'll get back to that someday. Yeah. Liberty Square. Great stuff. Things that are in Liberty Square. 1787 is the date laid out above the second story of the Hall of Presidents. 1787. Okay. We got comments on that? Okay. No.

[01:19:00] Yeah. We covered it in that episode. That's the... Yeah. Okay. But is that a Liberty Square thing or a Hall of Presidents thing? That's the Hall of Presidents. Okay. Well, it's over the Hall of Presidents building, which is sort of Independence Hall. Yeah. But Eric, go ahead. Why is 1787 important? 1787 is important because that's when we signed the thing, you know? Yes. Yeah. You know. What thing is that? I don't know. Contract.

[01:19:28] The alimony papers. Nobody knows. Nobody knows what that thing was. Let's see. Vintage Muskets leading against a window on the second floor. That's a thing. Huh? Huh? Why do I feel like I'm playing Jimmy Grasps at Straws? I don't know. Okay. Let me skip that past all the facts.

[01:19:58] But what you're doing here, I could get into, if I cared to do more research about this, I could get into the Opera House and- Yeah. Okay. It's irrelevant is what I would say as the judge. And 1787 was the Constitutional Convention, but go ahead. Yeah. That was the thing that they said. Yeah.

[01:20:19] So, seriously, just again, to spare the audience, to spare myself, here's my stance right now, is Hall of Presidents is not better than Lincoln because of everything I'd mentioned about why it's divisive.

[01:20:33] If they change this attraction and they don't have the current president speak and they go back to the original iteration of this thing, which is about the office of the president, what its meaning, what its significance, or whatever, and have the founding fathers speak to what the intention of this country and that office is, let's just assume that's what happens. Okay. Why is Hall of Presidents better than Lincoln? All right.

[01:21:03] So. Because if it doesn't do that and it goes to the current president, does a speech, whatever it is, generic freedom, whatever. Okay. It's still, to Dan's point, a third of the audience isn't going to go see it. Yeah. Generic speech. Yeah. Not great. All right. So, inside the queue. Okay. Here we go. Going into the actual building.

[01:21:29] George Washington's steel dental instruments. John Adams' pocket watch. Chess pieces given to James Monroe by Thomas Jefferson. The works of Lord Byron. A copy of the book owned by Abraham Lincoln himself. Teddy Roosevelt's riding crop and boots. Herbert Hoover's fishing license. George W. Bush's cowboy boots. gowns worn by first ladies. Gowns.

[01:21:59] So, we've got a little museum piece that isn't. I mean, no offense to the Lincoln piece, but these are actual historical pieces of American history instead of like. Well, and specifically presidential history. Presidential history. Yeah. In the lobby as a entry point museum. Right.

[01:22:27] You're saying Disneyland's version has got stuff about Disneyland. Right. Walt Disney, et cetera. Yeah. Whereas the Hall of Presidents has things about the American president and its office holders and their spouses. And so, you have actual historical presidential items, including the only presidential seal that is allowed outside of Washington. Yes. Indeed. You beat me to the punch there where it's on the actual floor.

[01:22:56] It's the presidential seal. It is. Yeah. Like you said. Well, there's no reason to restate it. But yeah. No. But can you elaborate? Like, is that true? That it's the official seal of the American president? The only one that's allowed outside of Air Force One and the White House and whatnot? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So, that is, to me, that's worth a point. Okay. I think that's very cool.

[01:23:27] I feel ridiculous doing that now. But, but yeah, like, it's, it's, it's not a thing that you can, this is one of the few places in America where you can have, I mean, Liberty Square itself is, we've got a, we've got a Liberty Bell. Yes, but we're not talking about that. Yeah, we're not talking about that. But yeah. Because we've also got a petrified tree in Frontierland. Oh, yeah, yeah. But, but this space is one of the few places in America where you can have the presidential seal.

[01:23:58] Yeah, it's very cool. Give you a point for it. Yeah. And by the way, it's probably worth saying, well, we'll get to it at the end. Okay, Dan, do you have a counter? I guess my only counter is on the positive side for Hall of Presidents. I think it's cool that they have that for like international visitors. So they don't be like, Hey, it's presidential crap. I don't need to go to Washington DC because I could see the presidential crap here.

[01:24:28] I think embedded in some of that argument though is in terms of the like versus part of it. But it's the fact they have a place to showcase things, artifacts related to Walt Disney and Disneyland in that pre-show area.

[01:24:52] It's not negated by the presidential crap because it's not like, it's not like they say it's Hall of Presidents light versus featuring Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln. But Dan, the name of the, the name of the attraction is the Disneyland story presenting Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln. So it's doing what it's saying it's doing. Yeah, right. It's doing exactly what it says it's going to do. Right. So nothing against it. Yeah. Right. There's nothing against that.

[01:25:18] And it's also, it's a place to showcase that they can do what they, they can swap things out. They can change it up. It's, it's sort of, it's, it's, it's, it can be a, like a living document. Like they say it maybe should be more so, but like they, they can bring in now here's artwork connected to this attraction. Here's artwork connected to this. Here, here's, here's some things that might.

[01:25:45] That about this part of the history that we want to explore more. It can be a, more of a curated experience. Yeah. When they allow it to. There's, there's a, there's incredible artwork in, in the Disneyland attraction. Right. I will. I will allow that. Like that. Like it's. Oh, will you? So cool. Hey, this is a legal show or something. I don't know.

[01:26:12] And like, it's so cool to see the, the models and to see the paintings and then to see the, the video about Walt saying, Hey, we, we, we hired this guy, Royal, Royal Dano to do the, the voice and like, like that's cool stuff. And you have the bench, the, the bench when the earth opened up and the fires of hell were engulfing everything in Griffith Park. Right. Right.

[01:26:41] Well, that's, I mean, that's dumb. Which is the Disneyland story. That is part of the attraction. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, so then, um, Eric, do you have other actual arguments before I kind of give my summation? I do have some additional arguments. I mean, this is a, this, this attraction is about the idea of being a president. So in the, in the narration, it's his final.

[01:27:10] So talking about, uh, George Washington, his final act may be the most important of all. After two terms with no term limit in the constitution, he steps down and gives the power back to the people. Yeah.

[01:27:26] Um, this is, this is presenting the idea of Washington as, as an idol for our, as a icon, maybe not a idol, but an icon for our country. Then we go to Lincoln where Lincoln gives the Gettysburg address in this presentation. Teddy Roosevelt gives some love.

[01:27:52] Um, he's, uh, he's, he's, he's the leader of a progressive and naturalistic movement creating, creating our national parks. Uh, they specifically call him out as an influential, uh, president. FDR gets additional, uh, attention as the leader who brought us through world war two.

[01:28:17] Um, and then we, we, we end with what we need most from our presidents is a guiding vision that calls forth the best of what America can be. Then we talk about Kennedy, LBJ, Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama. They're all speaking about peace. The curtain rises 16, 16 minutes into this presentation. We've been, we've been sitting watching this.

[01:28:47] That may be a point against, but go ahead. Well, we're, we're watching this, this expansive, like curved screen showing the, the history of our nation. And after 16 minutes, the curtain rises and we have an animatronic of every single fricking president. And they all, and they all get introduced one by one. Do you have an example? Rutherford B.

[01:29:16] Hayes. Okay. Okay. I, what I like about it is that, and I was telling my friend that we talked about earlier is that each one of these individual robots are reacting at all times. Right. They're moving, they're responding, they're, they're, you know, They're looking at each other, they're conversing, even if it's not verbally. Yeah, their heads turn towards the, whatever person's being, yeah. So, Eric, everything you said is 100% valid.

[01:29:46] And by virtue of what you said, I agree that Hall of Presidents took the Lincoln concept and made it better. Can I add something here? Okay. Only if I can add something after you. Oh, for the love of God. Yeah. Go ahead, Dan. So, it is certainly a more impressive feat. It is quite impressive, yes.

[01:30:18] I need to choose what I'm going to say, like, well, Lee. Yes, choose that well, Lee. So, we've talked before about, you know, sort of divisiveness and problems and things about the country that may or may not be problematic. And I want to make this clear. This is regardless of who is in the office.

[01:30:46] Again, the presidency, it's taking away the idea that this is an impressive show. All of those things. And it's about the presidency versus a particular president. Right. It's about the presidency. But if you look at what the presidency has become over the years, and again, regardless of who is in the office,

[01:31:14] it has become an outside, it has been given outsized power compared to what it was intended to have. Okay. And... That's correct. I think that this show and the focus of this show kind of contributes to that problem.

[01:31:44] Okay. So, here's... I'm going to close it up. In terms of the... Before you close it up. Okay. Former President Biden. Oh, you can do a speech? Oh, we didn't do those speeches, did we? Yeah. His speech is, I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of the President of the United States. That's it. Right. That's the way to do it.

[01:32:14] And I will, to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. So, help me God. That was his entire speech. That's the way to do it. With our current climate, that is the way to do it. Well, and I would also say that... Wait, did you want to do... By the way, did you... We haven't done Trump's, by the way. We should. But just for Constitutionism. Wait, was... When was he president? Okay. Do you have it? I don't. If you don't have it, that's fine. I don't. Okay, here's the deal.

[01:32:43] I'm going to close it up. I don't. Because it's time. Here's my summary. I believe that the Hall of Presidents, as a successor to Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln, is a better experience. It's a better show. It's more impressive. It's more impressive. The grandeur. The atmosphere. It's very consistent. It's in a replica of Independence Hall. The 1787 of it all.

[01:33:13] All of those things. I believe that Hall of Presidents is a better attraction. However, the Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln, the Disneyland story featuring Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln is for everyone. I do have a speech. I'm sorry. It has... To all be patty, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions, and a sesame seed bun.

[01:33:35] Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln is a show for everyone. And it does exactly what it's supposed to do. There's a living sort of historical thing for Disneyland, which is interesting for people going to Disneyland. The Great Moments of Mr. Lincoln think... Lincoln is not a divisive figure, right? I'm sure people hate him still or whatever, but in general, he's a divisive figure.

[01:34:05] Or not a divisive figure. Hall of Presidents, in its current iteration, is a divisive attraction. Because of all the things that I've mentioned, 24-hour media, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, this court will lie in recess until these two attractions reopen.

[01:34:31] At that point, we will discover how they handle the current commander-in-chief. Will he speak for freedom? Will he speak for equality? Will he speak for the sacrifice of the history of our great nation? Will he speak for happiness and freedom for all?

[01:34:59] Will he speak to we, the people? To our diversity? To our spirit and our kindness? To our wisdom? To our generosity? Or will he be a complete blowhard?

[01:35:24] If the current new iteration is either the current commander-in-chief does not speak at all, or the current commander-in-chief just recites the oath of office, then the Hall of Presidents is the supreme attraction. Until that time, this court stands in recess.

[01:35:57] We should have this audio ready for everyone. I don't think you could have done that any better. I just, it's important to note that none of that was planned. None of that was rehearsed. But seriously, yeah, that's it. The courts in recess, there's no decision. I gotta find out what happens.

[01:36:23] And I would love it if, when it returns, it's like, okay, look, stupid. Here's how the Constitution is actually supposed to work. Yeah. I would love that. That would be awesome. We, the people. That's right. This is a new idea. An American idea. And I think also... The idea of a president. Yes, exactly. Yeah.

[01:36:45] So, I think, listener, if you're still listening, it's important to note that, you know, the third, the third of, you know, maybe a third of you are big fans of the current president. Maybe a third of you hated the last one, whatever it is. That's not what this is about. It's not about Trump. And to be fair, I'm only upset with the middle third of you. That's right. It's not about... Dang it, damn. The reason I'm saying that the Hall of Presidents currently is not better is because, not because of the individual and,

[01:37:15] in the office, but rather because of our society and the divisive nature and that the current iteration is not for everyone. The current iteration of Great Moments in Disneyland is for everyone. But Hall of Presidents is better if they make it back to this is for everybody to come and enjoy or be bored by or whatever. So, I genuinely mean there's no winner.

[01:37:39] We are going to adjourn this session until these things are fully operational and then we'll have a brief little kind of caveat addendum, whatever, and I'll give my final verdict on which is better. William Howard Taft. Okay, fine. Hall of Presidents wins. I'm joking. All right. Well, okay. Thank you both for all the time and energy and effort put into this.

[01:38:06] It's, you know, again, like always, I didn't know what I was going to think moving forward. I had to actually think to myself when we were going through this for the last couple hours is, God, which one of these is better? And then Dan made the point in his speech about Clinton having his voice and that triggered like, you know what, that's the problem. Is the current president is talking and it wasn't a problem with Clinton. It became more of a problem with Bush than it became more of a problem with Obama.

[01:38:32] Then it's just, it's devolved to a point where people don't go see this show because of the fact the president is speaking. Just like how like people now don't have debates because they want to, okay, let's, let's arrive at some understanding of how we understand it. Let's have discourse. It's why you're wrong. Yeah. It's why you're wrong is the only thing. So anyway, as a sort of a personification of that problem, that's why I have a hard time with it.

[01:38:59] So Concierge is a vacation planning service and it's 856 Our Ears. And if you want to plan your trip to see either of these attractions, Hall of Presidents or Great Moments, call 856 Our Ears. Yeah. And Jason, Jason from Ears Up booked a trip with his family to Disneyland Hotel in one of the villas. They go early March. We're excited about that.

[01:39:22] If you want to send anything to them as a gift, by all means, we have our silhouettes we need to send. And then also there are other podcasts on the, on the channel. Ears Up is the quote unquote main show. You'll hear Eric there along with Jason and Taryn. Puny Pod is about the Marvel Cinematic Universe. They are quite entertaining detailed analyses of those movies.

[01:39:50] The Star Wars show, the Bantha Milk podcast. We are going to record and release the next episode of Scraping the Vault. It is dealer's choice. The final episode of dealer's choice. It is Hot Frosty. Hot Frosty will be the February slash March release. What's that, Dan? They've been waiting for it. You've been asking, we've answered. So listen to Scraping the Vault as well. And then I have one more question that I'm going to pose after we're done with the episode.

[01:40:20] In the meantime, now more than ever, be kind to each other. Be kind. We're all people. We're all people. We're all humans. You take our skin off and we all look the same. Gross. We're all people. Don't take your skin off, by the way. Listener, don't take it off. But if you did and everyone else did, we'd all look the same. If you did happen to take your skin off, put it back. Put it back. Look in the mirror. Put it back and rewind. And rewind.

[01:40:50] Anyway, be kind to each other. And until next time, court is adjourned.

[01:41:22] Okay, so here's my question. Yeah. They go through, currently, there are 45 men who have held the office of the President of the United States. Right? Okay. Yeah. Because now 47, this is his second time. And Supreme. Grover Cleveland, twice. Right? Richard M. Nixon. Nope, nope, not him.

[01:41:48] So Grover Cleveland, twice non-consecutive and Trump twice non-consecutive. So that's 45 by my count. Is that right? Mm-hmm. Sounds right. Yeah. Okay. So when this reopens and they do the presidents in order, currently, Grover Cleveland is only mentioned once. And it was with his first term. How are they going to introduce Trump?

[01:42:17] Rutherford B. Hayes. Twice. Are they going to do it twice? They're going to do it twice because they don't even sue. Supreme. No, they are. 100%. They're just going to hedge their bets and they're going to be like, just do it twice. He'll love it. Hello. That's it, isn't it? That's what's going to happen. That's what's happening right now. It's just. That's why I didn't win. Just give him what he wants. Yeah. Just give him what he wants. Whatever. Doesn't matter. Anyway, are you guys okay with where I landed there? Yeah.

[01:42:47] Do you agree? Yeah. Sorry for wasting an hour trying to do technical issues. No, it's fine. I think it made for good content. I'm sorry you were frustrated and I'm sorry if I didn't help. But I hope you guys agree. I think we have, but. Well, let me say, I'm sorry if I made it worse. But I hope you guys agree. You made it funnier. I hope you guys agree with where I landed with it. Yeah. I think we're good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For the moment. Yeah. Just for the moment.

[01:43:16] I just want to see what happens. Because if, again, if they introduce Trump twice and he does some bull speech about whatever, it's just going to be worse because it's going to be not for everybody. And that's the thing about these parks. They're meant to be for everyone. And that attraction is no longer meant for everybody. And that's not the park's fault. It's not Disney's fault. Right. It's society's fault. Yeah. You know, we got to argue for the times we're living in. Yeah.

[01:43:43] I mean, back when Bill Clinton was the first one to voice himself, it was a time when no matter what, you respected the office. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And yeah, there were people upset about it. Dan, I mean, but yeah, like as a kid, it's like, oh, that's the president.

[01:44:11] And then you found out like, oh, he did some bad stuff. Oh. But they all did. I mean, you know, Kennedy was fucking people and they all did bad stuff. They owned slaves, whatever. And I think also. No, you're right. You're right. For sure. Not whatever. It doesn't matter. But whatever it is, whatever the thing is, there was a scandal. It was a scandal forever. I'm sure there were scandals for whomever. Of course, yeah. These are the most powerful people on the planet. It's just we have more information now. Yeah. You know?

[01:44:41] And because we have more information, it highlights the fact that these are just dudes. They're just people. They're just dudes that get, or she dudes, whatever, that get. Not yet. Never going to happen. Well, I mean, God, we need it. But anyway. So, but they're just people. And how they got to that place is through a series of whatever. But it's just people. And so the reverence for the office is dying because we have so much more information now.

[01:45:11] Yeah. We've eroded the respect that we used to have for this office. Yeah. Yeah. The reverence is gone. Not gone. There's a third of the country who revere the office based on who's in the office. Right? Right. Well, and then on top of that, my argument is that it should have never been as revered as it has become. Yeah. It shouldn't by nature of what it is. It's just one of us who just happens to be in charge for four years or eight years or whatever.

[01:45:41] And that's what Washington wanted to. That's right. Establish. Gosh. That was the whole point. Washington's like walled where we're like, what would he have wanted? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, we don't want a king. That's the whole point. So that's, that's again, why I couldn't definitively say the hall of presidents is better.

[01:46:01] Then we could have the whole side by side argument, but I do genuinely want to re, re, not relitigate, but, but close this up after everything's reopened and see whatever. It could be a month from now. It could be six months from now. I don't know. But it's also possible that they, when they reopen Lincoln with Disney, it just sucks. You know, or it could be VR. It could also suck when they reopen the hall of presidents with another Trump standing at the front going.

[01:46:31] There are two Trump robots. Generic, generic unity message about America. Right. Right. I just don't see that happen. I just hope they make them accurately buff and sexy. Mm-hmm. The 610, the 62210. Yeah. The real version. Yeah. The real, the real like ripped Trump. Yeah. And the real ripped Walt Disney. Can you imagine?

[01:47:02] Walt with abs. He, he just flexes and rips through. That's right. That's all the show is. Every show. That's it. That's it. Ah! All right. Anyway. All right, guys. So I think we can stop.