The Case of the Castles 2: Sleeping Beauty v Cinderella and What's Inside

[00:00:16] Welcome to The Supreme Resort, Land v. World, a podcast about Disneyland and Walt Disney World and which is the Supreme Resort. Each episode we will discuss and explore each resort ride by ride, land by land, park by park, castle by castle, again, to determine which is better. I'm your host Jimmy and thank you for joining me on this quest to help the greater good of humanity answer this long elusive question, which is better, Disneyland or Walt Disney World? Joining me as always is Dan.

[00:00:46] Princess Dan. Princess Dan. That's me. And Queen Eric. I was gonna say I'm Sir Eric, one of the Knights, but they don't offer that anymore so I'll take Queen Eric. Yep. Can you still be a pirate though? No, I don't think so. Dress up as a pirate? No. You mean to tell me- Boys aren't allowed. You mean to tell me they weren't selling a whole bunch of the Prince packages? I want that guitar, alright? More purple.

[00:01:15] Oh, I didn't think about that. That'd be so funny if it was just purple rain. Here's the Prince. Anyway, everybody. Hi, welcome. The Supreme Resort. Every episode is somebody's first. Welcome. Yep. For those of you who've seen the title of the show, I still don't know what it is. I love that every episode is someone's first. It is. It's becoming our like tagline. It's true.

[00:01:46] Behave yourselves, Jimmy says. Okay, so then, yeah, you saw the title and you're like, wait a minute, they already covered the castles. That was episode one. Well, to be fair, Eric was going by a different name and he sounded different at that time. He did sound different. He's a little more confrontational back then. Yes. He was going through some things. Yeah. As opposed to now. Yeah, everything's very balanced. Just normal. Okay, everybody. So, yeah, so this is going to be a little bit different.

[00:02:15] We're not going to argue about which castle is better and which one does the better job of weenie, but rather the impact of what you can do inside of the castle. So, before we get into that, and that's going to be Bibbidi-Bobbidi Boutique, the Cinderella's Royal Table, and the Sin Leaping Beauty walkthrough, we're going to touch base, because we have to and want to, about D23 on August 14th, 2026.

[00:02:44] But first, a 15-minute song by Sheryl Crow and Beck. Nope. Well, I was going to say, similar to that, joining us today, very happy to announce, Doogie Howser himself, Mr. Neil Patrick Harris. He's quite new. You didn't send the link. Well. You didn't send the link. Okay. Okay. Anyway. That dancing, Bill, the Willie Snow Hero. That was a great impression. Thanks, Neil. AI, Neil. Anyway.

[00:03:14] Okay, so, the D23 actually, here's my takeaway. Here's just my overview, review, because by now, when this comes out, everybody's had their take, and everybody's, you know, gone through all the details and blah, blah, blah. But I think that I'm going to echo a little bit of Bricky, because he's in my feed these days, and I like him. Bricky on, it's Hey Bricky on YouTube for future reference.

[00:03:37] But anyway, there's nothing that we saw, or announced, or heard about, that we didn't already know, or were going to expect. It was just more, maybe more detail and things. But here's what we heard. Here's what I heard. They're fixing the Yeti. Figment ride. New Tomorrowland question mark at Disneyland. But quietly ignored Avatar. Like, I guess there was an Avatar, like, layout in the expo, but they didn't talk about it at all.

[00:04:05] Like, not a tease, not anything in the actual show. Otherwise, we kind of just knew everything, right? There was nothing groundbreaking or, and even the Figment ride, the Yeti, and the Tomorrowland thing, there's no detail. It's just like, hey, we've listened, we're doing it. Which I think very much is Josh tomorrow. Okay. I wonder if whatever water ride we were going to get for Avatar doesn't become what replaces the submarines. But maybe not Avatar, because no one will care about Avatar in five years.

[00:04:35] Yeah, people, I mean, people are going to complain when it goes into Disneyland proper. Maybe. I don't think it will. I think it'll be the ride technology, not the, I don't think it'll be related to Avatar at all. I see what you're saying. Okay.

[00:04:49] Yeah, because I think what ended up happening is, at some point, they were like looking at the timeline and they were like, okay, so when we actually finished this Avatar thing, nobody, Avatar, like, apparently there's a huge fan base, but I haven't seen it or heard about it. I enjoy them. They're all good. Yeah. I mean, I've seen all of them multiple times. I think I saw Fire and Ash twice, and maybe the water one a couple of years. It could be just me being out of touch. Yeah, I want to watch Fire and Ash.

[00:05:19] It's, they're pretty. They're fun to watch. Yeah. But they're just taking themselves so seriously. It's just like James Cameron, like, masturbating to himself. I don't know. Um, it's interesting that I, I also, this is kind of a tangent, but I watched, um, Dream Builders, Leslie Iwerks. Oh, yeah. Documentary, which was interesting. It was all very reverential to Bob Iger. Like, it was his legacy and all that stuff was interesting.

[00:05:48] So it's like the last episode of Imagineering Story that I never rewatched. And that too. I watched that right after, and it's like, what is going on? Who is, I mean, it's definitely deliberate. Yeah. They're trying to make him the new Walt Disney writer. Oh, yeah. I feel like the political move there is basically like, okay, don't mess this up, Bob, please. Like, kind of how the, the DSA people are treating Obama with like kid gloves. We're like, don't mess up what we're doing, please.

[00:06:19] Well, yeah, but it very, it was very sycophantic. Like all of it was just like, I'm sure that he's in charge of the company. So of course it's his quote unquote leadership, but I don't know, whatever. I mean, the acquisitions were good. And you know, what's interesting is Iger, all his talking heads are all reverential to Walt. So he's not taking credit for what he did, but rather if not for the visionary of Walt Disney, none of this is possible.

[00:06:46] And then everybody else talking is, if not for Bob Iger, this is none of this is possible. Maybe that's the play. Maybe that's the like narrative of the company that they're trying to develop long term is that it's like, yeah, it's, it's a series of great men who have done wonderful things. And the, the, the next one refers to the last one, you know? Yeah. But it's kind of like, I think from the outside looking in, if you're a casual fan, it was Walt Disney.

[00:07:14] Then it was Bob or Michael Eisner. And then it was Bob. Like yeah. Bob Eisner. Then it was Bob. And we'll, we'll see. We'll see what happens with, with tomorrow. And I, I, I'm really encouraged by Walter Morrow. Um, I'm like Pope. They give them. Yeah, that's right. Um, anyway, I'm encouraged.

[00:07:44] Walter Mark Davis. Tomorrow. If, if Josh does what I, if, if in fact, what this D 23 announcements and all the, the Yeti and the Figment and the new tomorrow. And all the things that we've all been asking for. And he's like, listen, I'm one of you. I'm going to make it happen. So I'm encouraged if that's him that is driving that. And if it actually happens. Um, but it's interesting.

[00:08:10] Like you were talking about earlier, kind of like, uh, rising above your station, the whole Peter principle thing. I, you know, I'm, I'm not going to say more words, but I think there's that thing about, you know, um, Josh tomorrow. But anyway, um, any other thoughts on D 23? Can't wait for the people mover. Mm. Yeah. It's, it's interesting. It's like they made, they made.

[00:08:37] So four years ago, they had that catastrophe where they're like, look at all the great stuff. And everybody was like, yay, concept art. And they all left and went, did we see anything today? And this year everybody went, yay. They gave us slightly more than concept art, but really all they did was give us concept art and.

[00:08:59] And dates on things that they announced two years ago when we were all really impressed when they, when Iger said, you know, this will be in the next five years. Yeah. But you can't, I mean, it's not sustainable. Like, like every two years, you can't like, wow, everybody with stuff. Oh yeah. It's just not sustainable. They got to make it and it's going to take years to make. So I think the next one will be the next big one. I think is. Yeah. I think we're, I think maybe we're beyond next big ones.

[00:09:27] Sort of like we're past there ever being a slope here at a Disney park. I think. Yeah. Fair enough. Ricky did point out cause I watched a lot of his videos too, that what they were, what, what they needed to do years ago was to be able to say like, okay, we know what you're saying about epic. Your new universe. We're going to give them like six months or so to prove it or not. And in the meantime, we're going to take the infrastructure that we already have. We're going to adapt it.

[00:09:57] And instead of building one impressive park, we're going to build one impressive park in several different locations. Yeah. To make up a complete park. Right. Yeah. So it's like a mosaic strategy. Yeah. And you know, I think I just, I just, I just remembered that we have the Abu Dhabi park. Yeah. They didn't say anything about that. Oh gosh. They left that one alone. Yeah. All the promises of, well, I don't, I don't think that's going to happen.

[00:10:26] But I, all of the promises of new tomorrow land, it's starting to remind me a little bit of Westcott and how all of that was with the expectation that Euro Disney would be a huge success. And then it wasn't. And we got California adventure. This keeps happening to Disneyland. I'm worried. Well, yeah, I don't think I share your worry.

[00:10:53] I think the do the Abu Dhabi thing won't happen anytime soon. Yeah. But, um, I think the next one in two years, I think is going to be once they get their stuff together in, in Anaheim, they got to build that parking structure because nothing happens without that. Right. So they got to build that thing. And then by then I think they'll have a better idea of third gate or whatever Disneyland forward is. And I think that'll be the big next announcement. But Disneyland forward, Disneyland forward hasn't been mentioned in years.

[00:11:21] I think that was the overall, like, let's get approval from the Anaheim city council. Yeah. That wasn't a real project name. That was just a, let's get approval. And when it comes down to projects and funding, it seems like it's been, let's focus on this, this, this, this, this. And they've kind of parted it out.

[00:11:41] They'll, they'll talk about whatever the development is going to be outside of the rectangle that exists now, you know, between ball and Catella and, or, or even within like, do we really know, are we just guessing at the expansion into the, um, the current, you know, security area and bus arrival area, all of that stuff. Which is supposed to be avatar. Right. But again, you can't do anything without the new structure.

[00:12:08] So I feel safe in saying that we're at a place where they've really learned how to play this game of like, okay, we're going to think several steps ahead and we're going to announce things in ways that are entirely beneficial to us. And I'm not saying that as critical. I think it's actually pretty smart. I, I wouldn't be surprised if they have this massive 10, 15 year plan that we're just seeing little bits and pieces of, and it's just enough that we can. Probably.

[00:12:38] Sorry. Go ahead. It's just enough that we can make some guesses and, and that's, that's a fun game for, for us to play and for them to play with us. And I think also, um, yeah, we just there. And at the same time, they're also playing this fun game of like, just doing things. And like, all of a sudden a thing is there. Like you go to galaxy's edge and there's these three robots that weren't there before and they don't announce it.

[00:13:07] It's just there. And it's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think they're probably terrified because the fan base is so loud that if they, they probably do have a 15 year plan, but if they talk about it, then, you know, and it doesn't happen for some reason. They did mention a 25 year plan out to Disneyland 100. I'm sure they do. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's one new tomorrow. And it'll open. By the way, people, whoever you're going to load it. You're going to load in at the top of the, uh, carousel theater.

[00:13:36] Oh, that's smart. Oh, go downhill. Okay. Well, uh, let's move on. Uh, before we do Spider-Man brand new day, best MCU movie since end game. Okay, let's go. Uh, thank you to our sponsor, uh, Spider-Man end game. Yeah. I'm excited. All right. Let's not. Okay. Your attention, please. And I just watched brave new world for the first time. Ooh. What's that? It's a Captain America.

[00:14:06] Oh yeah. That was all right. That's fine. Remember that one? That one came out. Kinda. There was a red Hulk in it. Never to be seen. Who played that red Hulk? Oh, that was Harrison Ford. Ooh. Who is also going to be indie in the indie ride. Oh. He is. He is about D23. Is it time for the Harrison comparison to make? Come by Harrison. What music did we have for that? Oh my God. I don't even remember that. That's funny. Then the, all the other titles of,

[00:14:36] of other shows are so funny. I don't remember anymore. All right. The case. This is my working title. The case of inside the castle, sleeping beauty V Cinderella. Cinderella. So we're going to discuss the Cinderella walkthrough, which we did kind of go into detail in episode one. And we're going to talk about the Cinderella's Royal table, a little bit of history, what's in it, et cetera. And then we're going to move on to Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique, where Dan and Eric will kind of cover that together. But for now,

[00:15:05] sleeping beauty castle came in 1955. So Dan is going to share an opening statement. Yes. Uh, and if I say something, Jimmy likes it, it's going to be you. Oh yeah. Points. Uh, yeah. Oh, by the way, if I, if Dan says something I like about sleeping beauty castle, you're going to hear this sound. Hi, I'm you. Here we go. And if Eric says something I like about Cinderella castle, you're going to hear this sound. Hello. Hello.

[00:15:32] And whoever has the most points at the end of the episode, we'll win the best. What to do inside the castles. I'll frame it better later. I feel like that you're trying out these titles. I'm just trying to figure out what I did. Anyway, all right. We're trying to be more professional again. Okay. If I, if you listen back to the first episode, Jimmy like addressed the judge. I know. It's crazy. Who was Dan for some reason. Yeah. Uh, your honor.

[00:16:02] Here we go. Opening statement. All right. Opening statement. Every man who ever met, met Dalton in roadhouse said the same thing to him. I thought you'd be bigger. They said it in the parking lot. They said it at the bar. They said it right up until the moment. It stopped being relevant to them personally. I bring this up because we made this joke on our very first episode about castles. And I've spent the year since assembling the argument that was underneath it. Sleeping beauty castle is small. Everybody says so.

[00:16:31] It's the first thing anybody says. It's the last thing anybody says. It's the middle thing. Anybody says it's the thing people say between bites of food while they're eating food, while they're doing other things. So let me talk about three unrelated things. First sourdough. A starter is not a recipe. It's a living thing. You maintain. It gets fed. It gets layered. It gets neglected and revived and occasionally ruined and started again.

[00:17:00] And every loaf that comes out of it carries every year that came before. That's what's inside that castle. 1957 and 1977 and 2008. All still in the culture. And a tank. Not a vehicle, but the role. Specifically in gaming. It's the one who stands in front. The one who holds aggro so the rest of the party can do their jobs. Every it's so small joke ever made about Disneyland gets absorbed by that building.

[00:17:29] And Fantasyland operates in peace behind it. And wine, which is the only one of the three where being small is the point. Old vines make less fruit and better fruit. Nobody has ever been impressed by a magnum. Concentration beats volume and it costs more. And everybody knows it. Now here's what's inside. In July of 1955, Walt Disney opened a castle with nothing in it. An empty shell. A photo op with a roof.

[00:17:56] And it bothered him enough that two years later he sent three men inside to find use for that space. Himself, an artist named Ken Anderson and a set decorator named Emile Curie. They found it already occupied by roughly 100 cats. Walt could have solved that in an afternoon. Instead, every one of them was groomed and rehomed. And their descendants are still on that property tonight, according to legend. Working uncredited 70 years later. That's the first thing that was ever inside Sleeping Beauty Castle.

[00:18:26] Not a princess. Not a gift shop. 100 cats and a man who wouldn't kill them. Across the country, there's a bigger castle. Taller, shinier, invisibly terrified of ever being poor again. Inside it, there's a restaurant that costs $76. A boutique and a bedroom no human being can rent at any price. The defense will show that one of these castles is a building you can walk into. And the other is a building you can be admitted to.

[00:18:54] For this I say, Cinderella, I thought you'd be warmer. Nicely done, counselor. We're not here to relitigate the size of the castles, just for the record. I know, but it's... Objection. As soon as they stop mentioning the size, I will stop making fun of them for mentioning the size. That's it. I won't mention size at all. No, it's not you I'm upset with. They know what they did. I just love it.

[00:19:23] I love how you brought Roadhouse into it, first of all. And you brought it back to Roadhouse at the end. I thought you'd be warmer. Back to Roadhouse. Just so well done. So nicely done. All right. Eric, what is your opening statement? Well, you know, Your Honor, I thought about going back to episode one to do part or all of a certain person's opening statement.

[00:19:51] But apparently you guys didn't do that back then in episode one. We were too afraid of you back then. Yeah. Back when you were playing the role of Jeremy, we were afraid of you. You got very method, to be fair. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, so I guess I'll have to do something on my own here and come up with my own argument. But, you know, I might just be a humble prosecutor slash podcaster slash scientician.

[00:20:21] But it seems to me that this... I'm just a small swamp lawyer. Well, well, well. I'm just a simple caveman. Well, let me adjust my suspenders here. Eric, I forgot about the scientician spotlight. Well, we haven't had a whole lot of science in this country. I'd like fair enough. That's good. It gives us a awful list that we don't want to read. All right. Continue.

[00:20:50] Seems to me that this Cinderella castle is mighty impressive. You see, it answers a different long elusive question. What's inside that thing? What indeed, little Timmy, the imaginary child I invented to ask that question. What indeed? But thank you for asking, because that proves my point. Both of these beauties have answered the same question in multiple ways over the years. I just so happen to think that Cinderella castle did it better.

[00:21:19] And not completely in all the ways Disney likes to grab at those stacks of sweet, sweet cash. Yeah, I might be old-fashioned. But a castle isn't the same without a cavalcade of princesses interrupting your meal. Or a painting in your bedroom that turns into a TV that only the luckiest of families get to see. What's inside Cinderella castle? Why don't you listen to this here episode and find out for yourself? You're bound to be impressed, too.

[00:21:49] Nicely done. I actually wrote it this time. I'm impressed. You did tease the dream suite. And, listener, we will be doing an episode on the dream suite versus the other one. What's it called? Cinderella castle suite. Castle suite versus dream suite. We'll be doing that episode next so you can hear all the details. Eric's going to touch on it a little bit because it is, in fact, in the castle. But because nobody can really get in there, we're not going to spend a lot of time on it.

[00:22:19] Okay, well done. All right, so Sleeping Beauty castle came first. And so did the Sleeping Beauty walkthrough. So, Dan, please share about the Sleeping Beauty walkthrough. So, this is very visual. And YouTube exists. So, listener, for a lot of this, instead of me describing every little window to you, I'm just going to encourage you to, hey, look at these things on YouTube and tell them that you came there because of us. Put in the comments how you found them. And that's fantastic.

[00:22:49] But, yeah, this was the walkthrough is not an open day attraction. I think a lot of people assumed that it was. But, again, it was just empty space. And it was populated by kitty cats. Now, there is a sort of an urban legend that those cats became, you know, the ancestors of the cats that are currently there. That's not the case.

[00:23:18] But, I mean, I'm, you know, hey, if you want to believe it, cool. But since I'm here to give you actual facts where I can, that is not the case. It might have. Boo! It might have sort of. It, I think in spirit, it might be part of the beginning of that program that they started. But I didn't do a super dive into that. But that's fair. That's interesting. Well, yeah, you'll get there.

[00:23:45] I mean, it's part of, I'm just saying it could, there's no reason to assume it's not the reason that that's there. That is not a part of the culture there. Disneyland and, you know, Disney Imagineering, they're, I don't know if you know this, but they're really into, like, storytelling and lineage and, you know, connections to things. But, anyways, the upper level was Dead Space. And Walt was bothered by it. He wanted the Imagineers to find a use for it.

[00:24:15] And eventually the walkthrough attraction was a solution to it just being empty. I have a question. So, like I said, yes. The cat thing. Now, that was just, you kind of intimated in your opening statement that the cat thing was just like, oh, hey, there are cats. And then now it's kind of, is it actual fact or urban legend that those cats are intentionally left to control the rodent population? The ironic rodent population?

[00:24:43] No, that is actually, that's a program that they have. It's a part of it. Do they have a similar program at Disney World Magic? For the gators? To control the gator population? Well, let's, I know they have, like. Let's leave Dan's insinuation out of this. But, no. No, absolutely not that anyone has ever heard of in legend or in fact. Well, I mean, you have to address the local problem. And maybe rats aren't really a problem in Florida.

[00:25:13] But mosquitoes are. And they do have a mosquito kind of, quote unquote, program with no standing water and the whole drainage thing and everything. Oh, yeah. That's true. But we're not talking about the design of the Reedy Creek Improvement District. No. Cat program, point. Which, there we go. Hi, I'm Hewell Hauser. That guy. So, yeah.

[00:25:35] And if, and the cats that exist there now, if you are a frequent listener of the show, you already know this, but they, there are Instagram pages for them. That's right. Each one of them has its own Instagram page. You can see it in the park going. Have you seen, have you seen a cat in the wild? I've seen, I've seen several cats in the wild at Disneyland. And I go, ooh, look at that. I have as well. Have you, Jimmy? I don't know that I have.

[00:26:06] I've seen them in more in DCA than in Disneyland. Yeah, they like, they like DCA. I think, I think, to be fair, it's, there's less places to hide in DCA. Hmm. But, I don't know. Yeah, we can continue. So, Walt Disney, Ken Anderson, and Emil Curie entered the upper level, and they were like, oh, all these cats. And he was encouraged to just kill them all. And he's like, no thank you.

[00:26:34] So, he had the entire population safely captured, groomed, treated, and rehomed with local residents and cast members. I know I already got the point, but it's in my notes and I haven't gone through it. This event became the historical catalyst most likely for the ongoing feral cat management program. So, the walkthrough opened. Wait, at what point after Emil Curie didn't kill the cats, when did he die of radiation poisoning? Shortly after. They were radioactive cats.

[00:27:05] I got that right. Yes. Yeah. Wasn't that Marie who died of radiation poisoning? That's what it was. They were all Schrodinger's cats. His cousin. Well played. All right, continue. Sorry. I don't know what that means. In 1957, Shirley Temple Black came back as a grown-ass adult to help Walt Disney open up the new walkthrough. I don't know why that's funny to be. I'm a grown-ass adult.

[00:27:35] Hi, Walt. I have an accent and I'm a grown-ass adult. What's up? I say square words and everything. Oh, boy. Do I? I don't know. I don't know. No, you don't have to. Keep going. I don't care. It's fine. You can say ass on TV. Keep swearing. You can, yeah, say ass all you want. Boop butt!

[00:28:05] I'm just singing dirtier version of the good shit lollipop. Don't. Please. It's called the good shit booty hole. As we like to say here, every episode of Sina is first. I don't even get what they're talking about. I don't either. It's just funny. It's funny.

[00:28:31] So they opened it sometime in April. Who actually built it? Evan Earl provided the signature stylist, a concept art, establishing the distinctive medieval Gothic design language and rich color palettes. If I'm remembering correctly, he was also closely involved with the film. I will check that while Eric does his talking. Thank you.

[00:28:59] However, it was Imagineer Ken Anderson who physically executed and constructed the three dimensional dioramas, utilizing painted plywood cutouts arranged in layers with forced perspective techniques to create convincing spatial depth. It is worth correcting the common shorthand that mistakenly credits Earl with crafting the dioramas themselves. He designed the artistic look and vision and Anderson built the physical thing and brought

[00:29:28] the log through to life. Some original effects. This thing was touched by a bunch of Imagineers, which is kind of part of my bigger argument, but we'll get there. We, they initially had spinning wheels, the sleeping kingdom, a bottomless pit illusion that was built with mirrors and echo chamber.

[00:29:53] They had a lot of, I think, Yester land or world or whatever he calls his channel. He has a lot of information on this. There are some effects with the goons. They are, they are, they are the creatures that work for Maleficent and they are called goons. Yeah. And I went in, if you have children in the car, they might be giggling, pause, stop everything,

[00:30:22] pull over and ask them why it's funny. Episode one. I did a bunch of detail breakdown about. Perfect. The variations. Perfect. So instead of, okay, press pause on that video, go back and listen to our first episode and don't laugh at us. We didn't know what we were doing. So the original walkthrough was dark. It had an eerie atmosphere, sinister visuals, and was intense for younger guests. Cause that's what they were doing back then for the kids. They were like, Hey, here's your kids. We're going to scare them.

[00:30:54] So it required an immediate creative patch, a true love's kiss instead of Maleficent laughing in her shadow being cast over everyone. Um, it provided a softer, happier ending and it reassured frightened visitors. Um, and then in 1977, they have what was called the Barbie was referred to in the Barbie as the Barbie doll version.

[00:31:23] I'm looking at it. Yeah. I feel like that's what I grew up with. Yes. Yes. We, if you are a certain age that is of course very young and very relevant, um, today, um, we're, we are, we're still relevant, right? We're cool. Um, the Barbie doll version is probably what you remember. If you're not aware that the Barbie doll version no longer exists, what the hell are you doing outside of the castle? Go check it out. That's right.

[00:31:51] Um, that thing, it just, it looked, I mean, they call it the Barbie doll version. You can probably do some of the heavy lifting of what that means in your, in your mind. In 2001, uh, following an abrupt shuttering of the walkthrough due to terrorist reasons, which we will get into, uh, some explanations emerge.

[00:32:21] Um, nevermind. Hold on. In 2001, it was closed, uh, because what they said was, well, clearly that's where terrorism is going to happen. Uh, widespread narrative attributed the closure to post nine 11 security and safety concerns citing the tight unmonitored interior corridors of the upper castle. Uh, but this theory was explicitly denied by Disney spokesman, John McClintock later, who

[00:32:48] publicly clarified that the attraction simply was not resonating with modern park guests, Barbie version. And McClintock, uh, famously remarked that by the late 1990s, uh, arguably, arguably the most appealing feature of the walkthrough was that you could always get right in because virtually, virtually nobody visited it. Uh, I would say that that's a pro, but they were wanting people to wait longer lines.

[00:33:13] Apparently the official ish, uh, line was that, uh, the attraction was undergoing a necessary refurbishment to update its visual storytelling and better align with the artistic design of the 1959 animated film. Um, however, media historians suggest safety and security concern provided a convenient public pretext for management to quietly sunset, a low capacity, high maintenance, and fundamentally unprofitable attraction.

[00:33:42] It is now profitable, not the attraction. We'll get there. Um, so in 2008, the original version was resurrected, so to speak, except they, um, they added more, you know, technology to it. They sprinkled some tech technology dust on top of it. Um, it reopened in November 27th at 5 PM, according to my notes. Um, very precise.

[00:34:12] In 2008, man. Okay. Sure. Um, uh, the restored artistic vision was championed by senior VP of creative development. You may have heard of this guy, Tony back, back, Baxter back Baker talk. The Thomas silent. Yeah. Okay. Thomas batter. Uh, better. Oh yeah. Imagineers restored the original Anderson Earl diorama style instead of reproducing the

[00:34:42] Barbie doll version, except they had advanced projections, fiber optics, physical illusions that were integrated, uh, into the aesthetic, bringing back the more chilling, move since shadow effect and adding interactive fun house elements in what was restored as, uh, the corridor of goons because the people who are in the corridor are, are indeed goons.

[00:35:09] Um, again, I just did a status is 2008, Dan. Mm hmm. Still a status on Shirley temple. She was still a grown ass adult. And way dirtier after 2014. We can't say the same. Yeah. So once again, if your children are giggling about the corridor of goons, just see if they can explain it to you.

[00:35:34] Uh, a ground floor virtual walkthrough room featuring high definition CGI recreation was built in place of what was the formal farmer candy castle candy shop, uh, to accommodate guests with mobility impairments. Uh, and I would argue by that by choosing to undo a past creative misstep and are of the original 1957 craftsmanship, the team demonstrated a rare level of historical integrity.

[00:36:02] Um, the balcony was originally intended to be part of the walkthrough, but got cut due to the fact that forced perspective exists and that would have ruined everything. Yeah. You don't want people above it. No. Wait a minute. Are those people giant? Are they destroying the very tiny castle of which I've made several references to? Um, and what else? Oh, they're used to, if we're looking at history, this thing used to also have in it, this isn't just the walkthrough with the castle itself.

[00:36:32] Um, things that used to be within the castle. There is the castle candy shop that I mentioned an early arts and craft shop, Briar Row cottage, which I think could be incorrect. I think that was actually the building by Peter Pan, uh, castle Christmas shop, which existed castle heraldry shop. These are all spelled shoppy by the way, just so we're on the same page. Oh, of course.

[00:36:58] Um, and I went to see my, uh, crest and it was depressing. Um, I remember that family crests. Yeah. And according to some internet lore villains layer used to be in the castle, but it was not. That's what I have. So, and for the record, um, I've since done a little Googling when Dan says the word goon,

[00:37:24] he's referring to a stupid, foolish, or eccentric person or a violent aggressive person who was hired to intimidate or harm. That's, that's what we're meaning by goon. That's what I'm meaning. For all you Gen Zers, that's what it means. That's what it means. Oh. Yeah. I will not go into the detail, ask kids, but gooning is a very different thing. I don't want to know. About as far away from Sleeping Beauty as you can get. Well. Okay. I think eventually sleeping is involved.

[00:37:53] Uh, I mean the character of Sleeping Beauty in her innocence. Got it. Um. It's far from true love's kiss. So, Eric. Well. So is that it on Bibby Bar, I mean on the walkthrough? That's kind of it. I mean. The history. Like I said, I don't want to talk about like in this window, you can look through. Yeah. No, that's fine. I just, what I mean is, is your case closed on the walkthrough or is that just the history and you have more? Yeah.

[00:38:22] I mean, aside from like arguments about, you know, and related to it, I do want to add that you can find a Barbie doll version. One of the Barbie doll scenes because, you know, they, they always hoard something in the shop, uh, down below where you check in for Bibbidi-Bobbidi, which we'll get into that part later. Oh. But you can see a display as they used to do. So if you're wondering what Barbie dolls look like, that is where you can go. The only place. Yeah. Okay.

[00:38:51] Eric, let us talk about Cinderella's Royal Table. And Dan, I'd like to, uh, contradict your opening statement about the cost of the Royal Table. You said it was what? $76? Yeah. It's more, right? It's $89. So breakfast is $76, but lunch and dinner are $79. Well, that's because they have to send your food through the Strait of Hormones. So. Fair. Topical humor. Eric, talk to us about Cinderella's Royal Table. I just looked really quick.

[00:39:21] You may have this, but, um, opening 1971 opening, obviously you're going to talk about King Stephan, uh, beef and barley soup, fried brie cheese, prime rib and roast beef and seafood and poultry options on the opening day menu in 1971. Oh yes. One of the things that I love the most about this, and we've talked about this for years

[00:39:41] as maybe our, our, uh, smart, uh, smartness topic, uh, kids menus at the resorts. When it comes to the early days of King Stephan's Royal Banquet Hall, kids ate the same, ate the same food as their parents, but smaller portions. Cause what kid doesn't want to have a small hunk of prime rib or filet mignon? Did they just like mom a bird into the kid's mouth or?

[00:40:11] Right. Except it's one of the hostesses. Right. Dressed in 17th century gear. What's that? Not one of the princesses? They don't date a bird game? No, they didn't have princesses back. Shirley Temple. Shirley Temple. Shirley, Shirley Temple, whatever her marriage would come out. She takes a drag on her cigarette. And Eric, you're going to talk about, um, King Stephan and why that didn't make sense and all that. Correct. Yes. All right. Great. Yeah. Thank you for, for giving me some, some menu.

[00:40:41] Please put somewhere in the show description, grown ass at all. Shirley Temple. I have, you know, I generally post these now, so. Just anywhere in there. And grown ass adult Shirley Temple's ongoing involvement with the company. Yes. Oh gosh. Now I got to write this down and talk.

[00:41:09] Eric, I'm happy to, I'm happy to, uh, post these anytime. I just, of course I said that last week and I didn't, but. It's okay. I'm like, you know, you know, who's not working this week? Me. Would you like to go into detail as to why? Uh, no. Oh, okay. Uh, thank you. Velocicose. Um, yeah. It was enough to be in a hospital for a month. It was fine. All right. Um, yeah. You know what?

[00:41:38] At least they, uh, they let me off with a misdemeanor for, um, for that murder. Yeah. If you want to know more, listen to ears up. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I didn't murder anybody. That's what I told the judge. All right. Let's get back to the, uh, the fun here. Uh, brief history of what's inside that castle. Uh, Cinderella's royal table started out as King Stefan's, uh, royal banquet hall. King Stefan being, of course, Aurora, Sleeping Beauty's father.

[00:42:07] Not Cinderella's, um, father-in-law, the king. Because he wasn't named. Imagineers wanted a regal name and the king was not, in Cinderella was not named. So, uh, they named it King Stefan's, uh, royal banquet hall. So there you go. It remained that way from the opening of the park until April 28th, 1997, when it was renamed and redecorated.

[00:42:35] So for, uh, the first, however many years that is, uh, 71, 97. Yeah. 26. Yeah. That's, that's quite a long time to name it something that it wasn't. Um, according to the 1983 burn bombs guide hostesses where 13th century style headdresses and gowns. Uh, this was supposed to. Where that the reason it lasted that long, no internet.

[00:43:06] No one knew or cared. Yeah. Yep. Uh, so this was supposed to represent, this space was supposed to represent a medieval mead hall. Um, and as Jim, Jimmy mentioned in the early days, uh, the, the food was supposed to be elevated, but this was the, uh, seventies and eighties and food wasn't always great in most of the country. And, uh, yeah. Especially in theme parks.

[00:43:35] Especially in theme parks. So lunch was as described by a burn bomb, a delicious and refreshing cold vegetable salad. And the casseroles are delightful. Oh, yes. That's good. Cause I was tired of hot meat salad. Right. Right. For dinner, prime rib, seafood, chicken and broccoli in a Mornay sauce. But you know what?

[00:44:04] When you get to dessert crepes, the crepes aren't going to win any prizes. So get the ice cream instead. Uh, at this time you would have to go to, uh, the castle first thing in the morning to get reservations. So it's like it was in Disneyland. For those of you who are familiar with running to the blue bayou, as Dan has described, this was one of those places you had to run to in the first thing in the morning to get to

[00:44:29] the backside of the castle, to go into, uh, the, the foyer and stand in line and wait to put your name down for lunch or dinner. And, um, probably in the earliest days, that was just a tip. And then later on, it was like a must do if you want to eat in the castle. Uh, really that's pretty much it. Nothing really changed. The menu would change occasionally. Sometimes they'd, they'd change.

[00:44:58] I mentioned, you know, filet mignon, uh, they change things up occasionally food wise, but it's quality waxed and waned over the years. And eventually they decided, you know what? We should name this after Cinderella. And it took until the late nineties to do so. And really when they redecorated it, it wasn't that much different than it was in the past. They just changed the colors.

[00:45:24] I'll talk about the design of, uh, Royal table when we get to it in the present day, because a lot of the original nods that were in there are still there to this day. And, uh, we can have some, some fun with that. Well, I think we're there. Cause I think Dan had covered the, the walkthrough. So yeah, the walkthrough is just, it exists and I look, I'm not diminishing it. I think it's actually super cool and I'm going to make arguments in support of it.

[00:45:51] But in terms of what it is, it's like you look through the thing and you see the thing. And if you're with certain people that I might be, you know, wed to, you get kind of upset and, or anxious that people are like shoving in front of you to look at the thing when you just want to look at the thing and you end up walking through the entire attraction.

[00:46:19] So one thing we didn't address with, with the walkthrough is the, we talked about accessibility at the outset, you know, before we started recording the accessibility of the, the walkthrough that anybody can do it, but not really, because if you are in a wheelchair or you don't have the mobility, it's, what do you do? Uh, well, if you can't do stairs, you can't do stairs. Um, but is there, is there an alternative for you? Yeah, there is. You can't.

[00:46:49] Back where this candy shop. And I think also the, that was the, uh, place where you see your family crest. Yeah. That little internal place. Uh, I didn't know this, but apparently there's an accessible area there where you can see like, uh, I think a HD video of what the walkthrough is. Have you been in there, Dan? No. Cause I can do stairs. So like, well, right. I've been in there with friend of the show, Christy. Oh, okay.

[00:47:16] Um, and it's actually, it's really well shot. Yeah. And they've got music and good video. Like it's a comfortable little place. Jimmy mentioned it. Um, I think in the original episode, because it is a little air conditioned nook. Huh? Yeah. In fact, uh, I was directed there one time. I need to, I was there and I had a business call I needed to take. It was the first time I'd seen galaxy's edge. And I said, is there a quiet place?

[00:47:45] And they directed me to that. And, uh, spoiler warning. It was not quiet. It's not quiet. Yeah. No, it's pretty loud, but, but it, it, it, it is. It's, I think, I mean, a lot of the walkthrough is stairs and really tight corridors. Right. And I think this is a suitable alternative. Even if you've got kids who don't want to like, they don't want to go into a dark hallway or something. It's nice. There are little benches around the room and you can just sit down and watch it multiple times.

[00:48:14] If you want, you can take all the time you need. That's cool. I like it a lot. So back to Cinderella's Royal table in present day. Yes. Um, anyone can get in there. In theory. It's the, the $90 per person price tag for a family of four is a little prohibitive for many people. Um, and there is no real alternative.

[00:48:43] You can't watch people eat. I mean, you could, but they'd probably go to the restaurant. They won't let you in there. But there is an elevator that brings you upstairs. Anyone can physically access it. Right. But anyway, anyone can pay the amount that is listed for you to pay, given that you can secure a reservation, which of course includes waking up at 6am, 60 days before.

[00:49:13] That's right. Um, travel agent, your concierge do it for you. Or, or that, uh, yeah. Where the sleeping beauty it's free open. A kid with no money can walk in. You could, you could not even know that it's there and just arrive. Yeah. It's one of those, uh, I think both of these instances are one of those when you, when you

[00:49:42] do the grab bag or the mailbag of nonsense and it's like little known secrets of Disney parks. The walkthrough is always on there and the Cinderella's Royal table is always on there because there are things you just don't walk by. You know, it's something you have to deliberately try to do. I think what I'm trying to point out though, is that the difference being you could see that or, or, or see like if in your hotel the night before and then at, at sleeping beauty, you can just go, Oh, let's go do that.

[00:50:10] Where the other it's like, well, you, we need to invent a time machine now, but I'm just trying to make more comparative parallels. No, that's that's true. I'm trying to win an argument. So I think, I think more and more people these days are aware of the reservation necessity and it's becoming less because of the new policy.

[00:50:36] It's becoming easier to get reservations in a shorter window, but Cinderella's Royal table is usually one of the first that books up in the theme parks. But yeah, it has changed. It's, it's tune quite a bit. I mean, at this point it is the premier destination for princess, uh, like princess character dining other than Ocarus who's over in Epcot, but this has breakfast, lunch and dinner. So three meals.

[00:51:05] It's basically operating the entire park hours with princess dining. And can you get in, can you get into the park early? Because you have a, do they have reservations prior to park opening? It is one of those where, yeah, if you get some of the early, the early things, yeah, you can get into the park early and get it. Basically you just go straight to the castle. You go in, you have your breakfast. And if you, if you time it right and they kind of seem like they, it seems like Disney has,

[00:51:34] has arranged this, the based on my experience with other restaurants in the parks, they do time it out where they're like, yeah, I think they'll probably be done in time to go downstairs from garden grill and go to, you know, Soarin' and get in line and not use a fast pass, but, or Genie. Right. But we're talking about Cinderella Royal Table. Yeah. We're talking about Epcot. I'm just saying what you're saying is that's my personal experience. You can have, you can get a reservation before the park opens, eat your breakfast and be in the park,

[00:52:03] like at rope drop kind of thing. Basically. Yeah. That's kind of cool. I mean, yeah, if you're going to spend $400, we're going to, we're going to let you get on a ride real quick. Yeah. And how much more fun could it be than paying $400 and then having someone with their phone going like, eat those eggs, eat those eggs, eat the eggs. You better eat those eggs. Do you want to have seven dwarfs? Four, three, two. Okay. You ruined our vacation. Are you happy? Are you happy? You ruined the vacation. See, your sister's crying. Glimpse into Dan's childhood. Are you, are you happy? Your sister's crying.

[00:52:33] Apologize to your sister. And now sister apologize to him for crying like, like a not grown ass adult. Tom tomorrow's over there. Be like Shrewi Temple. You go apologize to him for not maximizing your day. Exactly. Okay. Tom tomorrow or are we? Tom Morrow. Tom Morrow. Got it. Oh no. Oh gosh. Josh. Josh tomorrow. I was thinking of Tom Morrow and Josh tomorrow. Same person. Tom Morrow probably isn't sitting over there.

[00:53:03] They're brothers. Okay. So Eric, let's elaborate more on today's Cinderella's Royal Table. Cinderella's Royal Table. Let's see. Oh, I went back up to the old stuff. Here we go. Back to the current stuff. Do we want, do we want the interest of time? Because I know some of us have a hard out. Do we want to go to Bippity Poppy Boutique? Or do we have more on the Royal Table?

[00:53:29] We've talked a lot about the menu and the princess experience. The menu, they've got things on the menu that you can eat. Yeah, they do. Breakfast, traditional breakfast, scrambled eggs, bacon, blah, blah, blah. Shrimp and grits. That's interesting. Smoked Gouda cheese grits. Traditional plant-based, grilled steak and egg, and banana stuffed French toast. That's on the breakfast menu. There you go.

[00:53:56] And then dinner highlights, lunch and dinner highlights, shrimp cocktail, pork belly appetizer, lamb chops, catch of the day, chicken cottage pie. I thought that was interesting on the kids' menu. They offer the seared fish of the day, braised short rib on the kids' menu. That's kind of cool. It's still an elevated kids' menu. Yeah, it's chicken strips and mac and cheese. It's on the second floor, so of course. There you go.

[00:54:26] It has to be elevated. Yeah. So real quick, the design of the space. 40 family coats of arms are displayed throughout the dining hall. This is a round, it's mostly circular, tiered seating for great views of Fantasyland. Giant stained glass windows that look down onto the courtyard of Fantasyland. All of the other windows are small and inset like a, quote, real castle.

[00:54:55] But yeah, the banners, flags, and chandeliers are all around columns and arches. It looks like a medieval castle. But the family coats of arms are dedicated to the Imagineers that were instrumental in building Walt Disney World. It used to be, and I haven't been able to confirm if they still do this, but the hostesses used to keep a book at their stand to identify all of the family crests.

[00:55:20] Some of the notable names that are depicted along the upper walls of this space. Roger Brogy Sr., Mark Davis, John Hench, Dick Nunes, Marty Sklar, and the Disney family crest that Walt never used and Roy never used, but it's the Disney family crest. That the company kind of looks at every once in a while. So that's very cool. It's kind of like the windows on Main Street. Yeah. It's a nod to without in your face. I like that.

[00:55:51] Point for the coat of arms. Oh. Hello? Hello? And it's been there since day one, and it's still there. Yeah. I know you both know this, but just for the listener, in case you don't, it's not like you go into the Sleeping Beauty Castle and there's like drywall. It's properly framed. It's dark, but it's supposed to be dark. There's rock work. It's, you know. Right. Yep. Excellent. Keep going. Okay. Okay.

[00:56:17] So let's, I mean, that kind of wraps it up for Cinderella's Royal Table. Once they changed the name from King Stefan's to Cinderella's, they basically changed the colors of drapery and everything to look more Cinderella style instead of generic medieval. And that's about it. Okay. There's a, there's a, a, you come inside a grand hall. You can go up a spiral staircase or take a, an elevator up. You meet Cinderella inside the courtyard.

[00:56:44] And once you're eating other princesses come by and say hello to your table and interact with your family. Yeah. Typically Cinderella, sorry, Sleeping Beauty, maybe Snow White, Cinderella. Or do they rotate? Do you know? Oh, they, they definitely rotate, but yeah, they'll have, I think they have like four or five. It's, it's a lot of, it's a lot of princesses. If you want to get pictures of your kids with princesses, this is the way to go.

[00:57:14] This is a lot of the reason why it's in high demand. It's not necessarily the food, which currently seems to be rated. Okay. In the past has been poor. So are you implying that if they had more of a free roaming character policy, that this wouldn't be as big of a thing? Like at Disneyland where they have like seeing a character isn't, you don't have to like sell an organ to see a character. They're just kind of there.

[00:57:44] Or potentially, I mean, right outside, you can stand in line at the princess hall where you get to see more princesses after waiting in line. Yeah. So Cinderella greets everybody downstairs for photos. Right. And then they have a rotation. It says, uh, commonly seen Aurora, Ariel in her human form, Jasmine or Emerita or Snow White. Occasional visitors. She's a fish flopping along the floor. Occasional visitors.

[00:58:11] Or they've got a tarp over her, like on Fantasmic. And they roll her down the hall. Fresh catch of the day in front of her. Occasional visitors are Rapunzel, Belle, or Tiana. May substitute depending on the day. There you go. Yeah. Okay. So I've done both of these experiences. Um, in fact, Cinderella, as we did several times when we were, you know, kind of planning and visiting to plan our wedding. I got married there, by the way. New listener. Oh.

[00:58:42] So, uh, yeah, it's fine. It's fine. Here's a congrats to Jimmy. It's not. Thank you. Over 20 years ago. Um, so it's not for everybody. You know, we wouldn't take our, our boys there. Yeah. I mean, it's, we would rather spend our money somewhere else if we're going to have a dining. And if we're going to do a character dining, it's not going to be princesses. It's just not geared towards my kids.

[00:59:07] You know, they're, they're, you're young boys don't want to hang out with Snow White. And so, um, yeah, so while it's, it's a, it's a fine experience, great. I mean, the atmosphere is phenomenal. The views can be good. Not everybody gets a great view, but it's, it's a nice atmosphere, relatively relaxed. And that was before they changed to the price fix thing. Um, so. Oh yeah. That's worth mentioning. It is a prefix for every, every meal there currently.

[00:59:36] So you pay one price. Yep. And then you pick your, your options. So for me, since I'm going to compartmentalize this episode, because I think Bibbidi Bob Boutique is basically the same. Uh, so I don't know if there's going to be any differentiators. Can I add my, if you're going into a territory that I think you might be going in, can I add my sort of argument for the walkthrough? Sure. Besides it being. Spoilers. I don't think you need to, but go ahead. Okay. Well, just so, so it's complete.

[01:00:05] Um, I would say that, that the walkthrough in the castle itself is doing pound for pound, like the most work of any building in that entire property. Um, it's also, it's like this cool deep track needle drop of a place where like a lot of different imagineers have touched it. It's gone through a lot of different iterations and the fact that it started off as one thing

[01:00:32] became another thing and then went back and became a better version of the older thing is something I think profoundly rare. Um, and it, and it, it is again, it's just this cool thing that like, if you know, it's there, that's great. It gives you really cool, like Disney park cred to be like, Hey, let's go do this. Um, I mean, I don't know that it's not a one-to-one like we talked about before recording this, but it's, it's for the park that it's in.

[01:01:02] I think sleeping, the sleeping beauty castle walkthrough is doing a ton of heavy lifting. And at the end of the day, if you think about, uh, the magic kingdom without Royal table. And if you think about Disneyland without the walkthrough, I think the Disneyland version is sadder. Yeah, that's fair. Um, so yeah. And sometimes you can't, we, we talked about this, I think in episode one, you can't even

[01:01:31] walk through Cinderella castle many times during the day because they're preparing for a show. Right. If there's a show, then it's all closed off. You can't walk through, you can't go up the, right. The ramp. You can still get into the restaurant, but you have to go around the back. Yeah. Um, all right. So for me, the sleeping beauty walkthrough is accessible to everybody, including people who have accessibility issues because they can still see it and experience it. Um, and it's an attraction.

[01:02:00] And for someone like me growing up with a father who said we could do 10 attractions, they were Lincoln tiki room walkthrough like the tram. Those count. All right. That counts as 10. That's right. Um, so it was another one. It's genuinely an attraction. It's busy in the parks and you just want to reprieve. That's a good thing to do. Um, but also it doesn't limit you to not only the expense, but also the time of sitting and eating and everything else. So you can maximize your park hours.

[01:02:28] So for me in the, in the portion of this show that is walkthrough V sit through the sleeping beauty walkthrough is the supreme non bibbidi-bobbidi boutique thing in the park. So two points for that. There we go. All right. Now let's talk about bibbidi-bobbidi boutique. Do we have enough time for this? We, we do. We can, okay. I think we can try to keep it to 30 minutes.

[01:02:56] In fairness, I think that the argument portion is probably, it's probably over. Yeah. Probably over. But this is part of what you can do in the castle and they both have it. You can do it in both. They're both technically located in the castle on the map anyway. All right. So, uh, the bibbidi-bobbidi in Disney world opened first in 2007 in the magic kingdom. And then the one in Disneyland came after.

[01:03:23] So Eric, give us a little bit of history on bibbidi-bobbidi boutique. Okay. Well, let's start out with the space in Cinderella castle. Uh, this originally opened as the King's gallery in, on December 12th, 1972. Uh, so over a year after the park opened, this space opened up to sell jewelry, fancy trinkets imported from Europe at a time when pretty much every shop in, in the magic kingdom had different stuff.

[01:03:51] And a lot of it was just like, I don't know, go antiquing, buy some stuff and bring it here and we'll sell it. Um, and then Aribis brothers glasswork that was produced in the, the forge that they had on main street in, in Walt Disney world. Uh, all of that, that cool glasswork that I'm sure everybody has looked at once in a while and gone, do we really want to spend that much on a, on a glass thing as cool as it is?

[01:04:16] Uh, this space closed in 2004 in April of 2004 art of Disney opened in the spot. They sold it. You probably, if you've been going to the parks, um, any of the parks in our age range, you have seen the art of Disney. It sold paintings, prints, statues, books, et cetera.

[01:04:40] You could later on order prints from a computer, which was cool because it was a touch screen and you could spend half an hour just looking through stuff and going, Ooh, I want that. Ooh, I want that. Ooh, I want that. And order it straight to your home. Uh, that closed on July 5th, 2007. Many arts of Disney, um, have opened and closed. I'd like to do that. Maybe I should do that for an ears up or something.

[01:05:07] Um, arts of Disney over the years, cause they all opened and closed at different times. Um, and some of them are still open. Anyway, uh, the Bibbidi-Bobbidi boutique first opened as the, um, the, in downtown Disney, as it was called at the time in, uh, Walt Disney world on April 5th, 2006. Yes, that's right. Uh, six, not sixth. Uh, that's right. It is four or five, six.

[01:05:36] The day that Bibbidi-Bobbidi boutique opened. Very cute. Yeah. Okay. Um, but then the second location that it ever opened on was on September 10th, 2007. 910. What's that? 910, 7. Yes. Not as, not as catchy. Um, uh, in the Magic Kingdom inside the castle and there it has remained ever since,

[01:06:04] uh, there was a location that opened up in, uh, the Grand Floridian that has not reopened since the, uh, the, the good old pandemic. And also the location in downtown Disney has not reopened since then. But the Cinderella castle location remains and goes to this day as does the one in, uh, sleeping beauty castle. Yes. Dan, do you have anything to say about the history of that?

[01:06:34] Wait, I just have a quick update on Shirley temple in 2007. When this opened, still a grown ass adult. Thank you. Wow. Uh, so because they're, wait, what was her last name? Black? Yes. Her married name. Okay. Okay. So because they're kind of the same thing, I'll just go through, uh, the difference is that you check in, in the castle and then you go on a whirlwind tour of other places at Disneyland, but it's listed as being in the castle on the map. So we count it as being in the castle. Yeah.

[01:07:03] Can you elaborate? Where, where do you go? Uh, do you, right. So let's say you're walking through the, the castle because you can, and it's going to be, yes, all the time, except when the fireworks are happening, then good luck. Um, and it's directly to your left after you enter. Okay. That's the check-in. That's the check-in. But then you check in, then you leave and go somewhere else.

[01:07:29] I have, I have a whole experience that I have put together here. Eric, he hit the music. Not Golden Dreams. Not that one. Not that one. Bibbidi-Bobbidi Boutique is a salon located at Sleeping Beauty Castle. It serves children ages three through 12. Reservations open 60 days in advance. Appointments run 30 to 60 minutes. Cancellation is permitted up to 24 hours prior. But that's not really what it is.

[01:07:57] Check-in happens in a room called the Enchanted Chamber at the base of the castle. And from the moment your child steps inside, they are attended by a fairy godmother's apprentice. A cast member assigned to your child and your child alone for the entire appointment. Not a stylist, an apprentice. There's a difference. And every three-year-old in that room understands it immediately. And the choices are genuinely theirs. The braid. The princess bun. The flower halo. The colors. The accessories.

[01:08:26] Whether the shimmer goes on the cheeks or on the shoulders. For 30 to 60 minutes, a child is asked over and over what she would prefer. Which for a lot of kids is the most agency they'll be granted all week. It's just that every available answer has been selected in advance. And every one of them ends with her looking more like the picture on the wall. Guests are asked to arrive with freshly brushed hair and clean nails. Children must be free of any scalp or skin conditions for the preceding 30 days.

[01:08:55] The entire package is $59.99. The fairy tale package is $119.99. The enchantment package is $174.99. The kingdom package is $229.99 plus tax. Boys get one option. Do you want to talk about what's included? I will. Boys get one option. Girls get three. 30 to 60 minutes at the base of the castle in the middle of your park day. And the kingdom package is the one you're picturing.

[01:09:25] The gown of her choosing. The crown. The wand. The necklace. And at the end, a keepsake portrait session beside Cinderella's carriage. That could be incorrect. With prints in hand before she even left Fantasyland. The photographs her parents still have longer after she's forgotten the afternoon. And when she walks... And then she walks out. And here is the thing everyone who has seen it will tell you. The park responds. Cast members bow. Strangers curtsy. Parents in line nudge their kids in point.

[01:09:55] For the rest of the day, wherever she goes, a kingdom of adults will treat her like it's sovereign. A coordinated resort-wide performance of devotion delivered on site to a child by people who are contractually obligated to notice her. And she's not the only one. The next appointment is already checking in. There has been one before her. And there will be one after. And every... One every half hour or so. All day. Every day. And every single slot has been spoken for since 60 days ago.

[01:10:25] The apprentice knows exactly when to turn the chair. Because she turns it a dozen times a shift. The bow the cast member gives on Main Street is the same bow. Given at the same angle to whoever is wearing the gown at that hour. By four in the afternoon, there are dozens of them moving through this park all at once. And at some point, it happens constantly. Ask anyone who works there. She will round a corner in the courtyard and come face to face with another Cinderella. Same gown. Same braid. Same shimmer on the same shoulders.

[01:10:55] Two sovereigns at the same kingdom. Looking at each other. They are usually delighted. The shimmer is applied to the face and shoulders. It does not come off with water. Most parents report it takes several washes. And that they are still finding it on the pillowcase. In the car. In their hair. Three or four days after the trip has ended. And they... Look at that. Look at what it took. 60 days out. At midnight. Refreshing the app. The check-in at the Enchanted Chamber. The apprentice assigned.

[01:11:25] The tier selected. Adventure. Fairytale. Enchantment. Kingdom. Because specialness comes in four grades. And you are permitted to choose which grade of specialness your child receives. The add-ons offered in the chair. In the moment. While she's watching. The gown. The crown. The wand. The necklace. The portrait session. $299.99. Plus tax. That's a process. It's a documented, reservable, tiered, itemized, receded process. And at the end of it. A certified transformation.

[01:11:54] Performed by trained personnel.

[01:12:25] In a licensed facility. They bow to everyone. They bow to everyone. Which is precisely the problem. A bow that goes to everyone isn't worth anything. A bow you paid for is a bow with a chain of custody. She has the paperwork. That boy. He has a mother who loves him. And how do you document that? Wow. Now we're not. Dan is not.

[01:12:48] He's not insinuating that the mother who paid $300 to tart up their child doesn't love the child. Oh my. Just. I would argue that they love them more. They can prove it. They have the receipt. Fair enough. I love you $300. To paraphrase Iron Man. So the Adventure Knight package. Knight as in K-N-I-G-H-T.

[01:13:16] Includes styling gel, colorful confetti, a sword, and a shield. So presumably for $60 you get a sword and a shield and some confetti and hair gel. Yeah. I assume that's the one that the princes are going to choose. Yeah. The fairy tale package. So technically geared towards females starts at $120. So unless your princess wants a sword and a shield. That includes choice of hairstyle, shimmering makeup, nail polish, a specialty themed shirt,

[01:13:44] a princess sash, and a cinch bag. What is a cinch bag? Like a little clutch purse? Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. All right. No, no. It's the kind that you put on. It's like a tiny backpack. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it. Yeah. One of those. The enchanted package. Enchantment package. Sorry. It's $175. Including hairstyle, makeup, nail polish, theme shirt, trendy tutu, a headband, a sash, and a cinch bag.

[01:14:09] And then what Dan had mentioned, the complete package, the kingdom package for $230 plus tax includes a complete Disney princess gown of your choice, a crown, a swan, a necklace, a sash, a cinch bag, shimmering makeup, nail polish, and a hairstyle. Now here's my first question. Uh-huh. The ages 3 to 12, is that because if you're 13, you just can't be a princess or because you can doll yourself up if you're 13 or you're not allowed to wear costumes if you're

[01:14:39] above a certain age? I think it starts to veer into like actual emotional abuse if they're starting to mature. Gotcha. That's a good point. Um, guests aged 14 and older are not permitted to wear costumes. And 13 is kind of a tottering point because you're, you're, uh, puberty and all that. So then, but you know, we all know everyone listening to this, even you, the new listener,

[01:15:08] that, uh, there are many, many multiple adult women who would really want this experience. Yes. Oh yeah. They have expendable income. Yeah. Fair. Um, I just, I find it interesting. And we talked about this a little bit off the show. I, I find it interesting that this thing exists in an environment where the whole princess archetype

[01:15:33] has been identified as being, you know, damaging and Disney themselves. I mean, I, I believe me in Jimmy and Eric know this. I have a full, I have a full ass rant for, cause I'm a grown ass adult, uh, about this and I'm not going to expose you all to that, but it's just weird. Um, my, if I can do anything soapboxy here, I say, go make a lightsaber. Yeah.

[01:16:02] Cause at least it's personal, you know, I think it's, it's interesting that the conversation is interesting and I hadn't thought about it until your, your offline, uh, message. Cause I asked you, you, you, you, you use the term, I said, I'd give you $5. If you use the term, let your child get all tarted up. Get your, go, go, go, go take your ugly ass kids and get them tarted up. Yeah.

[01:16:27] And I, I, we are three, you know, cis white men, um, who don't have daughters. And so, you know, obviously this is not, we're not the audience for this, but you listener who are a female, a mother of a daughter, you know, this may be dream come true. I don't know, but from our, I don't know, heteronormative perspective, Dan, I don't want to take words. Admittedly my sort of, I, I would say Marxist perspective. Yeah, I think it's gross.

[01:16:56] I just think it's gross and do whatever you want with your money. I'm not saying that, you know, people can't feel pretty at all. I just think that this is, um, it's, it's just, it's, it's, this is, this is the spleen of capitalism in its purest form. It's interesting. I mean, that, that perspective is completely valid. Um, but then, you know, I talked to some of my friends about this.

[01:17:24] I talked to my wife about this cause we've, we've had a, an ongoing conversation about the boutique for, for the last day or so. And it's interesting cause even going to somebody like our friend J.R. Um, who definitely, definitely agrees that he doesn't like the capitalist portion of, of Disney.

[01:17:47] He also has a daughter and he was describing to me her, her progression through, um, through her like brand loyalties that he's observed. And he's like, I, I will bend over backwards to give her whatever she wants. Yeah. But he's, he's like, she always keeps coming back to star Wars. So if we would ever go to the parks, I hear there's a star, like there's like a, a star Wars lightsaber building thing. And that would be cool.

[01:18:18] But right now she's kind of into Disney princesses and we didn't lead her there, but she likes them. So maybe she'd like that sort of, I hear there's a thing where they can dress you up as a princess. He's like, we would do that. My wife and I would pay for that because it it's what makes her happy. And yeah. And there's nothing wrong with it. Yeah. It's interesting. Cause it, I think it just continues to open up conversation and I don't think there's anything wrong with any of these perspectives. Right. Yeah.

[01:18:45] Well, it's just like, I wouldn't spend $400 to take my family to Cinderella's Royal table. I just, that just, it's not for us. Right. Yeah. And if you have the means and, and your child wants to do that and you want to do that for your child, that we're not making commentary that we think it's wrong or think you're wrong parent for doing it. But it is interesting. You know, Dan made a couple of points that I just think are interesting. Yeah. Go for it, Dan. And it's perpetuating the, the, the archetype of the, the princess needing a, a prince or

[01:19:14] somebody to save her. Right. That she doesn't have her own agency. Or to be transformed into something more pretty and worthy. Whatever. Love. That's right. And she's all that sort of situation. Perpetuating that stereotype and that archetype and whatever, and just teaching children from a young age. Maybe we're looking too far into it, but I just think it was an interesting argument, but. Yeah. Yeah. Jason at ears up.com.

[01:19:42] If you'd like to register your opinions on this, on the subject. Where you can get your ugly ass kids tarted up so they can trick someone into loving them. That's a big callback. I want to make it clear that that's not an insult about the kids. It's, it's, it's just, I look, listener, if you've listened to the show long enough, you know, I am how I am.

[01:20:08] And I'm, I promise I'm not trying to be difficult or weird or edgy. It's just, you know, sometimes when you, when we have the brains and viewpoints that we do, we walk through the world and we see there are certain things that are just so glaring that it's just like, oh my God, someone take, someone take these, they live sunglasses away from me. Anyway.

[01:20:35] So I think unless you guys have anything else, I mean, Dan, you have a closing statement. We don't need to get into it, but I mean, I'm happy to, I think it's. You've prepared it. You may as well do it. Okay. Here we go. This is when you pointed Eric. When I'm ready for the thing. He knows when to point at me. Yeah. All right.

[01:20:59] Anyway, so the, the long and the short of it is the Cinderella castle is way bigger, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. And in your opening argument, I do like the, the, the visual of somebody taking a bite of their food in between bites. God, this castle is small. Nom, nom, nom. This castle is so small. So small. I can't even believe they can keep their food down. Anyway. So, but here we go.

[01:21:28] In the, in the castles episode, we, we argued that the castle is a weenie. And the Cinderella castle did a better job being a weenie. Still does. But go ahead. By the way. What's your. Disney world people. I will stop making fun of you as soon as I stop hearing about how small the castle is. Because congratulations. You've identified that different things are of different sizes. Now, all you had a whole episode about this. Okay.

[01:21:55] Now, all you need to do is discover that there's something involving, you know, proportionality. And that, that is also happening here. Okay. Here we go. Cinderella is a woman who, who scrubbed floors. She slept in an attic. Hold on. Eric knows what's going on. Cinderella is a woman who scrubbed floors. She slept in an attic. She happily wore rags in front of people who knew her name. One day she marries up.

[01:22:24] She comes into money. And what does she do? She relocates to central Florida. Acquires an amount of swamp land that I would describe as unreasonable. And she puts up the tallest, shiniest, most heavily fortified structure in the state. Because of course, she brought the mice. And she had them build it. Paid only with breadcrumbs and motivational songs. Because when you've been that poor, you do not trust a contractor. You don't trust a stranger. And you certainly don't trust a Floridian.

[01:22:54] That's not architecture. It's not. Hold on. I just wanted to make a point that the, the reason they don't have a feral cat thing at Disney World is because of Cinderella's mice. Right. And the gators. And the gators. Yeah, the gators take care of the cat problem. Yes. Sure do. It's not architecture. That is a woman who cannot, that is not architecture.

[01:23:23] That's a woman who can't stop checking the locks. When the vloggers line up to tell us that the castle in the smaller park in the suburbs of Anaheim isn't as big as the one built by a traumatized heiress with unlimited rodent labor and a fairy godmother who apparently now has, is running an MLM. Congratulations. You've noticed that a bigger thing is bigger. Extraordinary work. And of course, she built herself an attic. But she didn't call it that. A twisted version of her former life.

[01:23:52] Now something like a penal monkey's paw for which we all pay. Four stories up. Six hundred and fifty squares feet. Built as an apartment for a man who died five years before the park opened. And do you know what they did with the room Walt Disney was supposed to sleep in? They use it for storage. And then they put the telephone operators in it. Two castles. Two empty rooms. In one of them, a man walked in, found a hundred cats and built a story. In the other, they put the phones. Now, that room is a prize.

[01:24:22] You can't buy it. They've turned down $40,000 for one night. And everyone tells you that's the beautiful part. That money can't buy magic. But a lottery is an access. A lottery is advertising. There's a difference between a room you can't afford and a room that was never for you. Meanwhile, in Anaheim, there's a staircase. It's free. No reservation. No dress code. No waiver. No minimum age.

[01:24:50] No photographer waiting at the bottom to sell you the moment back. Just a door in the side of a castle. A plywood dragon and a shadow on the wall that frightened children so badly in 1957 that Walt Disney had to go back and add love to it. They say it's small. They've always said it's small. It's the first thing out of their mouths. Every time for 70 years.

[01:25:13] And I'd like the record to reflect that when a person looks at the most concentrated, most layered, hardest working building in American entertainment. A building that is sourdough and armor. An old vine camper night. And a hundred rescued cats. And the only thing they can think to say is, Huh. That's smaller than I expected.

[01:25:38] Then, I think, we're entitled to draw some conclusions about the size of their hearts. I mentioned this before, but imagine it. Disneyland without the walkthrough. Now, imagine Magic Kingdom without the $76 princess dinner. It's more expensive than that. And think about this. Which one is sadder? And you're damn right.

[01:26:08] It's Disneyland. The defense race. And I am a grown-ass adult. Just like Shirley Temple Black. Just like Shirley Temple. But only until 2014.

[01:26:37] Very well done, Darren. The last thing you said, the climax was there. I didn't hear it. And that's the something. Which one's sadder? Damn right. It's Disneyland. The defense race. The defense race. Thank you. Okay. Well, well done, boys. So we have, essentially, Bibbidi-Bobbidi Boutique. I don't know if there are- Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Oh. Oh, sorry, Eric? I know I lost in everything. That was less a closing argument than it was an acceptance speech.

[01:27:06] I just want to say, I know I've lost in this particular argument, but we're not done. Okay. We're not done. Even though our entrances are in different places and the Bibbidi-Bobbidi Boutique is pretty much the same. And a walkthrough might serve the thematic elements of Disneyland better than a restaurant.

[01:27:33] But the restaurant serves the elements of Walt Disney World that seem to be prized these days, which is a place for people to pay lots of money and eat food and see a bunch of characters all at the same time without standing in a line. So it serves its purpose. But beyond that, we have some beef to settle here, Dan, which is sweets.

[01:27:58] Sweets where people can actually stay in places that, if you've read any article about the secrets of- I don't hear Golden Dreams playing under any of this. Yeah, it doesn't actually count if it's not playing. It doesn't. It's it. Oh, that's all I can say is. Oh, is this an old episode, but after hours? Right. Yeah.

[01:28:24] All I can say is where you sleep in the parks is severely limited in the American parks. Are you asking where you pull up your velvet jammies and curl up with a nice view of the park? Guess you just won the sweepstakes. And you are in the resort. Disney parks. The Disney parks. After hours. After hours.

[01:28:54] And you know what? We're going to settle this. Pay Jason money and you can listen to after hours episodes. Well, this isn't really an after hours. I'm just saying. That was the only other music I had queued up. The only place you can walk through the park with your pants down. Yeah. Get into a hot tub. Plenty of jets and colored lights in it. You tell the kids, you stay in that room over there, all right? Yeah.

[01:29:22] Call City Hall and say, can Donald Duck tuck me in? And they'll say, we had some weird guy a couple of years ago to ask me that. And the answer is still no. Where do you think you are? Knott's Berry Farm? Yeah. We're going to, next episode, we're going to revisit a little bit of castle. Because there's more castle to be talked about with Cinderella Castle. Because it's so big. Yeah.

[01:29:50] Well, and there's another place where you could sleep in the parks in Disneyland. So, you know. That's right. We're going to talk about Cinderella Castle Suite versus the Dream Suite at Disneyland. Walt's Haunted Apartment. That was going to be his apartment. Then it was an art gallery. We'll talk about it. Anyway, so Eric, are you done with your closing argument? Yeah, sure. This was really just a way for me to needle down a little bit and then say, hey, next episode, there's more stuff. Yes, thank you. Accepting defeat.

[01:30:19] So the Sleeping Beauty Castle, small but mighty. Great use of space and accessible to all. And so Sleeping Beauty Castle is the supreme castle where you do stuff. Kind of. Cinderella Castle is still the best weenie. What would we call the inside stuff?

[01:30:49] The bowels? The intestines. The filling. Sleeping Beauty Castle has the best intestines. Casing. The best. Uterus? Not casing. What? Well, it's all in there. I don't know. Fair enough. Lips and buttholes. Hey, we made it to 3 p.m. Hey. All right, everybody. Well, thank you for listening. Sleep Beauty Castle. Go see the walkthrough. It's great.

[01:31:17] And if you want to make your daughter look like a princess, we have no judgment. And I hope you have a wonderful day. All right. So we have other shows on the network. Ears up, as we mentioned before, if you want to know more of Eric's story. Also, if you pay money to Jason, you can get access to Patreon and listen to our, what do we call it? The after hours episodes, which are oftentimes very fun. Yeah. And very adult, like Shirley Temple.

[01:31:47] Until 2014. Okay. So that would argue she was beyond the extra adult. Yeah. Or beyond. Van the Milk is still a thing. The Marvel one is still a thing. It's the Marvel one is called. Peony Pod. Peony Pod. Spider-Man. Brighter Day. Still the best MCU movie since Endgame. Yeah. And what else?

[01:32:15] Oh, and then listen to Dan hates the David Bowie. Bowie'splaining. Bowie'splaining, yeah. Bowie'splaining and the hub crawl. Still. Yep. Still going. And support the spoke. People like the movie. People are liking the movie Obsession, if you want to watch that. They are liking it. It's a very high grossing movie. It didn't cost a lot of money to make. I think Endgame re-release in September is going to be a lot of fun. There'll be new scenes. It'll set up.

[01:32:45] And I think Doomsday is going to be a direct sequel to Endgame. People are speculating that there's going to be two Doctor Dooms, one played by you. They are. Killian Murphy. Indeed they are. Oh. So we'll see if we're right. But in the meantime, you also listen to the spoke crawl. Yes. Spokes, as they call it. It's on the same feed. Yes, our friend Marie on the same feed. You can listen to spokes. This is a response to the hub crawl. Anyway, until next time, everybody.

[01:33:15] Thank you for listening. Especially you, new listener. And until next time, be good to each other. Don't forget to subscribe. Subscribe and watch our videos. We don't have videos. Anyway, be good to each other. And we'll see you in the parks. Wait. Oh, until then. That's Jason's. Until next time. The resort is adjourned. And fresh baked.

[01:33:39] We can leave it in if you want to have honest criticisms about people.

[01:34:14] Here, I'll stop the recording and we can upload. There you go.