Puny Pod | Phase 3 Episode 6 - Black Panther Part 1

[00:00:00] Welcome to Puny Pod, the podcast who will feed you to their children if you say one more word Just kidding, we're vegetarians Um, I actually were not but, but anyways, welcome to Puny Pod everyone We are the Marvel fandom podcast where we rewatch the MCU in release order

[00:00:43] And we cover Marvel news over on our monthly bugle episodes My name is Ryan and my co-host who never freezes is David David, how are we doing this morning? I thought about actually looking like my video was frozen just to see freak out

[00:01:01] About terrible wifi. I'm doing pretty good man. Here we go. Oh not too shabby not too shabby We're getting right on the border of uh Second birthday party here in a couple weeks so getting excited for that Um The boy has started to really enjoy Spider-Man

[00:01:20] Which is absolutely like adorable. He he asks for him by name if he sees if I'm like in Disney plus and he sees Spidey and his amazing friends It's PIDEE PIDEE That's cute Yeah, it's really cute or if I'm on my PlayStation

[00:01:39] And I'm like scrolling through my games and I scroll past one of the spider-man games He he requests that one too. At least isn't going to be a plash with flash. You're like good It's terrible character. Yeah, you need a bridge from that Oh, sorry Mickey Rark

[00:01:56] To some or Mickey Rork Or not poor Mickey Rork. What am I saying? Man-made his buckets So yeah welcome to PewDiePie. Everybody Real quick we had a couple of holdovers from the monthly bugle if you listened to our monthly bugle episodes you might know that

[00:02:16] On the most recent monthly bugle we recorded just before Deadpool came out and a little bit of magic spoiler here for you guys We're recording this episode well before it releases. We release these episodes on the first Tuesday of every month

[00:02:32] So we are recording here before Deadpool comes out so um There was a left over bet that David still needed to fill out On that so basically the bet here is who who's gonna came you know in that movie

[00:02:53] Who was meant to play a character but never did something like Tom Cruise playing Tony Stark or something like that. So David did you get your answer for that one? Yeah, I'm just gonna take Jensen Ackels He was um considered for the role before

[00:03:10] Environmental to us for Deadpool so That's a that's a good bet honestly like That's that's probably better. I mean, that's definitely better than my security we've are playing I'm a frost so I'm still gonna get on wrecked in this contest but it's fine It's all for charity

[00:03:29] Charity me content We also were we're talking about what the prize for this was going to be so again referencing an earlier monthly Bugle from our year and review monthly bugle. We kind of set out a bet originally it was gonna be Deadpool versus

[00:03:46] Any two Sony projects now that was with the mindset that We would get another animated spider man this year That's not gonna happen So I gave David as penance for watching Matt. I gave him

[00:04:05] All three Sony projects that will release this year so it's a box from all of them right yeah he gets the the global box from Venom Craven revunter and madam web which right now madam web is running it like I think a hundred mill

[00:04:25] So yeah, I'm not just in for inflation that's like by the end of the year a little bit like three million right I'll take that hundred million and put it in video stock and see how that looks like at the end of the year

[00:04:39] Not kidding. There you go Really gonna erect in this contest to make to make these dead pool bets that we had a little bit more fun and again go listen to the last monthly bugle for all the bets there. I think we're like

[00:04:52] Does in there so different things we're speculating on here But to make it a little bit interesting. I wanted to put a little bit of a wage arena, so What we what I came up with was

[00:05:06] David you'll get the top Sony project over the year whatever it is right now Bad boys for life it probably will stay bad boys for life honestly looking at their release late In less one of your

[00:05:23] Comic properties over comes bad boys for life. It's probably gonna you're probably gonna get this one So bad boys for life is running at 426 million dollars So that would add into your total David and if if you know

[00:05:39] reasonable expectations here I was I was playing around with some numbers that does put you over a billion So you know Deadpool Deadpool's got a break a billion which is tougher and our rated movie

[00:05:52] And so so that would if you do win the Deadpool bets it does put you in a pretty good running This reminds me of like when you play monopoly with someone and they are just getting wrecked and they've got like

[00:06:07] The purples and like the railroads and you're just like okay, I'm gonna just give you this pity trade Just prolong me crushing you when you Around the we go around the corner with the reds and the oranges but And for what it's worth I know I don't need

[00:06:27] anything extra I I mean Honestly David like those three Probably are gonna be lucky to To get up over a half a half a billion dollars all three of them combined three that you already have But you know I Can't go in win nothing right so

[00:06:56] We'll we'll take my fandom into account and we'll go ahead We'll add the Taylor Swift era's tour concert film box office to my Total which right now as of recording is running it 261 million So You know that that to Deadpool because she'll show up in Deadpool

[00:07:21] This is just a lot so much math I didn't realize when we started this podcast and be this much math But oh, it's a good thing we have computers to help us There's a lot of excel knowledge not a lot of math knowledge I

[00:07:36] All right David well we are here not to talk about Deadpool not to we'll do that next month and Not to talk about not to belabor the Taylor Swift point but Instead we are here to talk about Black Panther

[00:07:55] So David why don't you go ahead jump in with our Production details and then all fall that up with some comic details I'm so excited to talk about this movie black Panther released February 18 2018 released in Blacks history month in the US UK in Canada

[00:08:15] And when it came in May 2018 it was still in theaters it was one of three Marvel superhero movies in the theater at the same time along with Deadpool two At a little movie called Avengers Infinity War and it was one of three MCU movies that year

[00:08:29] Along with and man in the loss and in fit Avengers Infinity War 2018 phase three sixth installment movie number 18 Takes place one week after civil war and run around the same time is Spider-Man homecoming The runtime was two hours in 15 minutes the initial assembly of the film which

[00:08:52] To be clear is not considered a watchable version was four hours long Well, I didn't I would I mean I would take it. I would I would as well You're not a movie oh gosh yeah get your mirror no ready for that baby

[00:09:07] Financial landscape the production budget was $200 million Opening weekend 222 million Dollars basically may back its money in the first weekend Domestic Rose 700 million worldwide gross 1.34 billion dollars It opened in 4,000 theaters in the US it was released across Africa was first live action film to be shown in Saudi Arabia

[00:09:33] Which bands cinemas for 35 years? Wow. That's that's groundbreaking yeah I the first film they showed was the emotion movie but

[00:09:44] And at least I'm sure they were like hey this is it this will we've been banned for 35 years since this is what what we've missed this is not much Anyway world wide gross it was number two in 2018 behind in fan radio war which made

[00:09:56] $2 billion and it was ahead of trash world falling kingdom Which made one point three billion In 2018 those three MCU properties Grossed four billion worldwide in 2018 it ranks number six among MC movies all time Repined Avengers age of all-tron shocking and ahead of Iron Man three

[00:10:19] It is the highest grossing individual superhero solo film ever and it's now number two after no way home The movie becomes the top grossing film in history to be directed in written by African Americans

[00:10:32] featuring a predominant black cast and with the first major movie superhero played by African protagonist E-language like per a mother rotten tomatoes critics gave 96% trolls slash audience gave 79% It is the highest ranked rotten tomato score by quote the critics in the MCU

[00:10:57] Not everyone loved it the 79% audience score reflects controls Leonard Foster And Amazon commenter said this is without a doubt the worst of all Marvel movies include in the first Hulk The new spider kid and doctor strange

[00:11:10] Obviously plan is a vehicle with which to entice African Americans into the movie fold This thinly scripted poorly acted and totally outlandish movie was a waste of time

[00:11:19] It would have been much more interesting seeing a backstory on the Falcon than mr. Dickles character rocket on cardins of the galaxy was more realistic and infinitely more interesting Leonard Leonard Foster production and development notes so

[00:11:38] This is a one of the this is one of the characters that had like a long production run so This is the first Marvel character who's moved to write it's reverted back to Marvel artisan entertainment and Columbia Pictures

[00:11:52] Previously owned the character and Marvel got the rights back in 2005 and yet it still took 13 years for the character appear on the screen Reportedly because for most TV Marvel CEO i promoter felt that this film kept Marvel wouldn't be profitable again Exxbid of deleted i promoter so 1992

[00:12:17] long time ago In June Wesley Snipes announced his intention to make a black panther movie In 1994 he entered in talks with Columbia to portray black panther Stanley joined the film in March

[00:12:30] The film went into early development in May and steps head discussions with several different writers directors about the project including Mario van Peebles and John Singleton

[00:12:40] 96 January film hasn't progressed because Lee wasn't pleased with the scripts snipes said there was confusion among those unfamiliar with comics who thought that's film was about the black panther party Okay, yeah, we know just it's this black panther like a cute penoon like the o-kong thing no just

[00:13:00] Nevermind, we'll go to the next studio in July 97 black panther was listed as part of the Marvel comics film slate in 98 corporate problems are real put the product on hold obvious

[00:13:11] In 1999 Snipes was set to produce and possibly star in the film so it looks like this is gonna happen And then he stopped filing his texture turns around that time in 2000 in May

[00:13:24] 2000 artisan entertainment out to deal with Marvel a coproduce finance and distribute the film so looks like it's it's moving on 2002 Snipes made blade three and answers he wanted to start his black panther

[00:13:34] You can yet again like every every time he's on press stories like I'm gonna be black panther The director of blade three David Boyer would later say that he felt Snipes starring in his black panther in addition to Marvel's blade quote might be overkill

[00:13:50] In 2005 the rights were murdered from artists and Columbia back to Marvel and in Marvel in September 2005 Avi Arad who was the chairman announced black panther is one of the 10 films being developed by the new Marvel studios But definitely on the back burner

[00:14:07] June 2006 so we're we are the started 92 14 years later Snipes says he hoped to have a director for the project soon And so you see Snipes like he's trying to do his own thing. I get the feeling that like

[00:14:23] five you marvel like we're not we're not paying attention in May in February 2007 fire reiterate the black panther was quote in development and John singleton was approached to direct the film again 2008 stipues is convicted of tax evasion and start serving a sentence from December

[00:14:40] 2010 to April 2013 do that's a long period of time. I was just yeah kind of that's quite a sentence Two and a half years. I mean man anyway In March Marvel hired a group this is 2009 Marvel hired a group of writers help come up with creative ways to launch

[00:14:57] It's less known properties including black panther In 2011 Fige said that Marvel was considered minority writers and directors for the film but would prioritize quote the best film makers The best writers the best directors possible so I'm not gonna say

[00:15:13] For sure they were going to hire from any one demographic. Okay, not a great quote I just you just can't Like because at that point in time there's a

[00:15:27] Dude there's a the at the point in time there was a white documentary filmmaker in Mark Bailey who was hired to write a script This is a documentary. I'm sure they got all brilliant, but I'm like I don't know about that anyway

[00:15:38] Nothing happens for while 2014 then things pick up. It's three years later Jack Boseman is cast as to Chala and Fige announces in October the black panther be released on November 3rd 2017 But that was pushed back to 2018 and then Thor Ragnar and Slid into the November 2017 release date

[00:15:59] Fige wanted to yeah again and keep skating postponed He wanted to make black panther and Captain Marvel much earlier, but pro-mutter refused because he felt that a movie with lead that wasn't a white man

[00:16:08] Wouldn't sell and only agreed to make the movie after Kevin Fige agreed to make in in humans moving so So I guess that okay, I'm gonna make

[00:16:18] There can be I'm gonna have so many dolls. They're to push. I'm it is gonna be great. I make all the demons white is gonna great 2015 pro-mutter loses control of the Marvel's film unit in a vicious turf war with Kevin Fige in Disney

[00:16:31] 2015 and it's forced to seed nearly all creative authority boo Who Kevin Fige immediately put both black panther and Captain Marvel pushed up and the in humans movie gets pushed on ice and then

[00:16:45] In October that same year 2015 Joe Robocob was hired to write the screenplay and Marvel changed the release date once again Moving into February 2018 and Ryan Cougl in 2016 this named the director in January so this is a span of 20, yeah

[00:17:02] 24 the 24 years before wow. Yeah, yeah from the early early days Director Cougl was not the first choice so Ava

[00:17:13] Duverne who did Selma and Juan Fuqua who did training day and F Gary Gray who did fight it in such a job or approach to direct film before Ryan Cougl over's hired

[00:17:23] Duverne turned it down because she wasn't comfortable not having told a creative control while Gray decided in order to decline it in order to help the fate of the furious and Gray was actually previously considered to direct Captain America the winter soldier before the Russo brothers were hard

[00:17:39] so Couglor age 31 was confirmed as director In January 2016 after the successful opening of the film Creed the screenplay was written by Joe Robert Cougl and Ryan Couglor Marvel invited Coulton meeting this is way back when

[00:18:00] Years before Black Panther and was told they had plans for a war machine movie Hello, which they passed on after Iron Man 3 But Marvel like Coulton, I'd like to join the Marvel Studios program

[00:18:12] And the program called described the way that it works and he says you're quote and I'm only speak for myself here They give you an office and a story read all the comics with that character then you come up with the story

[00:18:22] You see for that character you present it get notes and if everything moves along Your green lit to write the script so in 2014 he wrote the script for the human's movie And then took break he coped out coproduced and wrote a couple of episodes for American crime story

[00:18:39] People for a so Jason before He was approached by Marvel so the cast again Some recurring characters many new characters Chad Wick Boseman is to Challa Black Panther we have new Michael B. Jordan as Eric Kilmonger in Ducca

[00:18:57] He Jordan wanted to play the villain and liking Kilmonger into Charles relationship to to make Nito and Professor Axe And so to prepare for the role Jordan say a lot of Marcus Macmax Marcus Garvey he who P knew

[00:19:12] Fred Hamster to Pachikore and he also cited Heath Ledger's portrayal the Joker in the dark night as an influence on his character Lupita Nguanga I'm sorry Lupita Nguanga. It is as Nikiya she auditioned for the role of Valkyrie before test tops cast it Daniel Guerrera as Aquay Francis

[00:19:33] Csumba as ao who appears she was just in civil war for just a moment um other Dormology there are a sedel Noelle Noah Zola Williams and Chinesia Adams Ganyard These the funny thing was the Dormology were cast from a pool of like actresses

[00:19:53] It's stunt women and Broadway dancers so that each door Each individual door will have like specialized skills that they brought yeah that they brought the role so but the process was so long and difficult that the cast department humorously dubbed the search finding Dora We have Liti Shariah

[00:20:14] We have Mark Freeman reprising role as agent ever Ross Angela Bassett is Ramonda Who Bassett was also a proof to consider for the role of storm in Katherine Briegel's cancel Xman movie

[00:20:26] in the 90s and she starred in the movie Panther about the Black Panther part movement in the 60s and 70s Daniel Caluga as Bucabi force Wittaker as Zuri and he circus returns as Ulysses claw

[00:20:41] Winston Duke as Mumbaku so two fun facts about him one this is his very first movie Which blew me away wow yeah right He's wild yeah and he Winston Duke's and Lupita Nguonga they both students at the Yale School drama at the same time

[00:21:01] And they saw the Avengers together when it was released and they were so asterisk bucket They were both saying at the time they hoped to be in a similar film one day That's cool. Yeah, it is cool. Yeah John Canyas to Chaka

[00:21:14] One thing to note he is returning in his role in civil war He speaks Kosa which is the South African dialect that's the basis for the Wakanda language and he

[00:21:25] That's his native accent that appeared in civil war and Chadwick bows when picked it up from him as well Which I thought was kind of cool yeah his son Atonua Connie plays young King to Chaka

[00:21:37] We have sterling cabroun as Jobu and Denzel Wittaker as young Zuri slash James no relation to force Wittaker And we have cameos Stanley as

[00:21:50] Thurst a gambler Sebastian Stan as bucket Barnes and I didn't ever I never realized until we should try to know it as the voice of Griot the Royal Talon remote pilot system. Oh no idea Alternate casting so both women was the unanimous choice to play to Chala

[00:22:10] You know as mentioned before there are others considered Anthony Mackie Chad Coleman John Boyega To attend before But it was always gonna be Chala and I can't envision anybody else in the role

[00:22:24] Baku sterling brown position for it Mustafa Shakir and yeah, I do all of my team the second Push Shakir we go on to play bushmaster in Luke Cage and Matine was cast as Simon Williams Wonderman We will hopefully see one day

[00:22:42] Either talking about it again. I'm come on man. Let's bring it on Shuri consider for the Royal War Amanda Sternberg and to make Dominic Thorne Who would go on to play riri Williams and we'll come forever To Chaka or he Hudson was considered but he

[00:23:00] He turned it down as his character wasn't considered big enough for him Okay, and then some of the characters that were toyed with them being in the movie

[00:23:09] They they toy with idea of introducing patriot from the young Avengers, but they felt like we were distracted from the main story They wanted to add Craven huh But because of the Spider-Man stuff No needy, oh yeah, I couldn't do that and then

[00:23:26] Namor was planned to be introduced in one of the film's credit scenes, but had to be scrapped Do to Marvel on having the right quite as a vet so yep. Yeah, cuz name more name or rides he's

[00:23:40] I think Fox had his rights at the time. Yeah, technically immune Yep, yep, so didn't have the rights couldn't do anything with that Academy Awards so This movie was nominated for seven Academy Awards it won

[00:23:57] Three times one three awards. It is the first MC went film to win a Academy Award prior years You know they wanted to submit movies for You know special facts or to be considered and I guess it costs money to do it

[00:24:12] Me there in terms of like marketing or promotion or what what have you and Marvel was too cheap What pro-muttered like another is real like now we're not gonna spend money on that which is the shame It shouldn't I guess it shouldn't surprise me just you know

[00:24:27] Grabbing paper clips out of the trash you're not gonna Hey The back of that post notice perfectly good. What are you talking about the winners so Ludwig Gornson one best achievement in music for original score

[00:24:49] It was nominated for best picture it was nominated for a best achievement in music written for most of the picture It won best cost to design the Ruth Carter which we'll get to in a minute it It's

[00:25:04] One best achievement in production design so hand it be clear and jet heart Best achievement sound ending was nominated and and sound mixing as well So it is director Rancubler and composer Lou Rig Gorenson's fourth collaboration previous films were

[00:25:20] The short film locks, but they also did fruitfield station and Creed. They've known each other since it attended USC film school He also brought on his cinematography for Vuel Rachel Morrison and editors Michael Pishover and Claudix Telo as

[00:25:36] editors who did fruitville and Creed so like it's this kind of cool Like collaboration group that he's working with the need work with fruitfield station which is a fantastic film of no one's ever seen it Creed which I'm sure a lot of people have

[00:25:51] But really and the one it kind of paused to talk about One of the creatives on the project you know when you watch the movie It's the sets of visually stunning the music is great acting is great but I wanted to focus on the costume design

[00:26:09] As I mentioned before Ruth E. Carter was nominated one academy work for this film for the costume design She's an American costume designer for film a television She graduated from a Hampton University with a B&D art she worked as an intern for the city stage

[00:26:24] Just costume department spirit last two sets and then the Santa Fe opera in 1986 She moved to LA to work at the city's theater center while working there. She met a young director

[00:26:35] named Spike Lee who hired her for his second film school days and she continued working on his subsequent films including Do The Right Thing no better blues jungle fever no come x Other credit film credits include what's love got to do with it love basketball strategy

[00:26:50] the Butler Selma Marshall Dolmide is my name coming to America And so For black Panther her The costumes that she created were derived from what's called afro futurism and was inspired by many traditional african garments

[00:27:06] And so a major focus of the film was honoring african tradition and culture And then fusing that with the Wakandan's advanced you know technological you know superior order So she traveled to Southern Africa to draw aesthetic inspirations And she received permission to incorporate traditional

[00:27:25] Sethalo designs into the film's costumes Well when we get to the scenes we'll talk about like the The designs of the various kind of tribes if you well

[00:27:35] But yeah, um, if you look at like to chalice suit just to pull an example there's a geometric focus in african Default design which has been every tribe and so in to chalice suit they're like hidden triangles throughout and that the triangle is the sacred geometry of african

[00:27:50] Signifying his being both a superhero and an african king and then you know this all this technology the commoyobie That they use for communication and holograms and other stuff so she was nominated four times for the academy for best costume design And she has won it

[00:28:07] twice for this movie and she won for Wakanda forever Black Panther Wakanda forever. She is the first African American to win and be nominated for best costume design And it's the first black woman to win multiple academy words in any category so

[00:28:24] And then last and one talk about is the music so Composaluga Gorenson who won the Academy Award for original score had an nine-to-piece live orchestra a 40-person choir in over 40 different musicians playing traditional african instruments

[00:28:39] Much of the much as the filmmakers had a coller story which we'll talk about woven throughout the film there are also Leetmotifs which are musical cues which represent the characters throughout the film's narrative and which develop alongside them And he spent a month in Senegal

[00:28:55] researching making music with musicians in the region so their instruments such as the talking draw drums the Fula flute the coro which is an african heart and the vulvizella which is an african horn which is used by fans of the 40 minutes

[00:29:08] Which can be very but annoying but that can be heard throughout the film so Just want to kind of highlight those things when you when you watch the film

[00:29:20] You know again visually you could if you could you could take out all the dialogue and you could still like Understand it and appreciate the film and just be like odd by its visuals and by its music Yeah, and on top of the score you also have Hendrix

[00:29:36] Amazing Album that he put together which I will listen to separate from this movie on Pretty often occasion it's it's a very good You know as far as like aside from the score the actual sound track is

[00:29:53] Phanomen it's great. It's great. So those are the production details Ryan I know you want to chat a little bit about the comics Yeah, so Talking about comics I'm gonna try

[00:30:08] I grabbed some of the characters. I will tell folks so for those who pay detention my other comic detail pieces

[00:30:16] I usually try and grab the main characters you may notice the omission of a few main characters here that is intentional because I'm saving them for some later movies to talk about But We're gonna start off with the main character of all right to Chala the black Panther

[00:30:33] Introduced fantastic forward number 52 in April of 1966 Stanley and Jack Kirby wrote that that issue and Jack Kirby drew it So before I get too much into his story beats. I do want to kind of talk about some of the history

[00:30:51] The production history if you will be behind the comics So black Panther was the first black superhero in Marvel comics in fact he was the first black hero with actual superpowers at all in comics as well as the first black main stream comic here

[00:31:09] So you know groundbreaking kind of stuff Although he shares his name with the black Panther party he predates the black Panther party by about six months And black Panther imagery has been used for black American organization since World War II

[00:31:28] Those Stanley says that this is purely coincidental he says oops we just use the character name. I don't know how much of that I believe

[00:31:37] You know dating back to World War II you had like tank come all black tank companies that were using black Panther imagery that's what it Stanley and Jack Kirby often clashed over credit for black Panther's creation Essentially both have different versions of the same story

[00:31:56] They both realized that their comics were lacking in representation of African or black American characters as The only named black character that they'd featured to this point was Gabe Jones who's a member of the Halloween commandos

[00:32:12] They did you know often draw diverse crowd scenes if they showed a crowd scene it was they would you know color color the crowd diversely, but No named characters in both creatives case they cited that they had close friends who were black and and

[00:32:34] That was their inspiration for bringing more black folks into the comics The inclusion of black Panther and the stories that were told by black Panther at the time were were considered commercial risk right They were taking a risk by Including more diverse cast It should be noted

[00:32:59] that black Panther was the subject Also of Panthers rage which is a storyline in the jungle action comic book which we'll talk about jungle action a little bit later But this was a much crazed storyline. It was told over 200 pages split up into 17 issues

[00:33:18] This was the first time that Marvel had done kind of a self-contained graphic novel type story and is often referred to as Marvel's first graphic novel so The history of black Panther in the comic books is also littered with Kind of milestones right

[00:33:40] All kinds of things that that were done Moving over into the story of black Panther in the comics So I have this kind of broken down into the decades in which these stories were told

[00:33:53] Now the first part here. I do want to say is a little bit of a mix so some of this is from the 60s when Black Panther was introduced They also recently in 2018 kind of preceding the movie and it ran actually well the movie came out

[00:34:10] There was a There was an arch of comics called Rise of the Black Panther which kind of re I don't want to say retconned, but it it dove deeper into some of the origins of some of these characters So some of that is mixed in

[00:34:26] So born to Tachaka and Naomi To Tchalla is to Chaka's first son. Naomi was to Chaka's Second wife or I'm sorry first wife She died less than a week after giving birth to Tachalla

[00:34:46] As a child to Challa was attacked by elicis claw when claw attempted to secure the right to buy to mine of ibrainiam from Wakanda Kla attempted to kill Tchalla but to Chaka stepped into defend to Challa and died This puts

[00:35:05] Siyan who is to Chaka's brother on the throne As a teen and young adult to Challa was sent out into the world To go on all kinds of adventures including both saving and being saved by storm who he dated during this time

[00:35:23] He also attended universities in the US and Europe under the alias Luke Charles During this time he also had some run-ins with the character that would become Luke cage Who actually had managed him for using a Anglicized name but Took the Luke part to become his name

[00:35:45] So Luke cage I believe He was Lucas something and he became Luke cage because of Tachalla's use of The name Luke Upon returning home he anonymously challenged for the throne two years earlier than expected which which as Siyan actually

[00:36:10] Welcome here in the mantle of King and Black Panther Well on the throne Tchalla excommunicated his adopted brother Hunter who was also known as the white wolf And was the head of the hato-sersae were the dogs of war

[00:36:29] Because he had become too nationalistic and he was the white wolf was using the Dogs of war to destabilize countries that they viewed as enemies of Wakanda do in the dogs of war were kind of adapted into the war dogs

[00:36:43] Do you think exactly yeah, yeah, yeah the war dogs in this movie are Very much the the dogs of war

[00:36:51] Right, but more spies than rather trying to like intervene over and like turn over. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was the original like in the comics the the dogs of war Ment to kind of be the spies that we see here they

[00:37:05] It I would say the the pieces of the white wolf story where he became really nationalistic and and he really was pushing the dogs of war to do more of the destabilization That's what we get a little bit and we'll talk about this obviously in the scene breakdown

[00:37:19] We get a little bit from Joe boots Story Tchalla would eventually join the adventures During his early years in the Avengers he would fight some recognizable recognizable names like the brotherhood of evil mutants Ultron Vision yeah the bad guy version of vision yellow jacket even surter

[00:37:43] On the home front during this time to Challa did battle with man ape aka Baku When he tried to take over Wakanda. He also battled king and the squadron sinister during this time So that's all kind of mid sixties

[00:38:00] Early sixties early you don't mid sixties up to the sevenies So we get into the seventies With Wakanda secure to Challa headed back out to the world at large During this time he would face threats like the racist hate group the sons of the serpent

[00:38:17] He'd also fight the lethal Legion who the man ape was actually hanging out with at the time I've got the lion god which is Another god in the Wakanda and Pantheon Andy'd even fight Thanos he also teamed up with Daredevil in the fantastic four

[00:38:37] And during this time he also designed and created falcons flight harness Upon returning home because he realized he had been abroad too long He found that Wakanda was threatened by Kilmonger Kilmonger was attacking villages within Wakanda to drop to Challa home Eventually through a series of conflicts

[00:38:57] Would see to Challa facing off with a plethora of villains including the KKK Which was a very risky move by Marvel and some of the writers room Actually tried to stop that series from happening What year is this roughly? This is in the mid to late seventies Okay

[00:39:22] The the end of this story line ends up with Kilmonger dead, which I'll talk about a little bit more how many times I'm gonna say that once I get to Kilmonger story

[00:39:32] 80s and 90s kind of just some general stories with with Black Panther he did I will say that that Marvel kind of Move Black Panther into more part of the Avengers through a lot of 80s and 90s he didn't have a lot of solo stories

[00:39:48] He kind of was doing more just being part of the Avengers To Challa did create a vibranium shield for Captain America after Cap had given up his Antim at a mantium shield due to a conflict with Tony Stark

[00:40:09] He also during the 80s and 90s is where we see the we see Wakanda Start to interact with Atlantis and and you know really the the name or to Challa kind of relationship starts to develop

[00:40:26] We also see him do a battle with Mufisto in the 80s and 90s, you know Everybody's got her on the end with Mufisto Except the MCU Fast forward to the 2000s Kilmonger wasn't dead This time Kilmonger came back tried to destroy Wakanda's economy Which led to

[00:40:50] To Challa selling Tony Stark the the Wakanda in design group Once to Challa had stabilized the economy he fought Kilmonger and lost the Black Panther title Moon Knight and brother Voodoo nurse to Challa back to life

[00:41:06] So that he could reelectently take the title of Black Panther back as Kilmonger could not process the heart shaped herb In the comics heart shaped or requires you to have royal blood which to which Kilmonger does not have And so the

[00:41:26] Once you know being a man of tradition To Challa was like he won but you know I guess he can't be Black Panther so I guess I'll take it back from here gets yeah I'm gonna tell you guys it gets weird please bear with me

[00:41:41] To Challa got involved with a future version of himself stopped a corporate coup in the US and Canada dealt with The US trying to have the invade Wakanda he married storm He formed a new fantastic four after the Civil War Fockeil longer again dealt with the scroll invasion

[00:42:06] And when I say dealt with I mean like Black Panther was who could a who could ultimately defeat Super scroll which was kind of cool And ultimately he passed the mantle of Black Panther to Shuri So then we get to the 2010s To Challa is

[00:42:25] Depowered he is disillusioned because he could not protect He could not protect his country And so he goes to Hell's kitchen where daredevil's like hey you want to be the guardian of hell's kitchen And to Challa takes up that charge

[00:42:45] During this time he fought you know street-ish level crime There's a little bit of mysticism mixed in there so you know he's fighting some magic loop-powered street crime But you know generally street crime

[00:42:56] Eventually he would return to Wakanda and become the king of the dead and was empowered with the power and knowledge of all the past Black Panthers and ruled over in a cropless will Shuri remained empowering Wakanda From here the

[00:43:13] To Challa joined the Luminati and who was a key player in both the Infinity War and the 2015 secret wars Story arcs he fended off a revolution and an overthrow attempt During the most recent years during the 2020s

[00:43:28] We've gotten weird again. I am going to do my best to explain this but he gets really weird during the early 2020s To Challa encountered the time and space traveling intergalactic empire of Wakanda Which is different than the country of Wakanda It is a group of

[00:43:50] Space explorers that travel back in time and created an intergalactic empire It is ruled by the tyrannical emperor and jaca who is not killmonger After a plot where to Challa was spying on his fellow Avengers To Challa gave up the throne of the intergalactic empire Wakanda

[00:44:15] Which he had earned by beating Space killmonger if you will But maintain the title of black Panther and is now operating as a Visualante with black Panther superpowers Yeah, you lost me man. Yeah, it's weird. It is so weird man

[00:44:36] I was like reading this and I'm not super familiar with black Panther right now During the time where he was in the Illuminati and that sort of stuff that's where I was reading comics

[00:44:47] More frequently and so some of that stuff was like oh, yeah, okay, and then I was like wait Two Wakanda's different jaca. I okay I do want to mention the ultimate universe because a lot of these heroes end up getting pulled from the ultimate universe He was not

[00:45:06] But it is kind of a cool version of black Panther that I want to share So in the ultimate universe to Challa was experimented on by the weapon x program

[00:45:15] Broken out by Nick Fury some back by to Chaka after he was almost died dead as after to Challa almost died And ultimately be has Catlike claws sort of all you know Wolverine or lady death strike more more more over

[00:45:37] Baku is to Challa's brother in the ultimate universe and to Challa is a member of the altimates Which is the Avengers over the altimates So yeah, you know overall obviously some groundbreaking stuff kind of Did the the Avengers thing has some weird runs So yeah

[00:46:02] Moving on to kill longer so kill longer Introduced in jungle action volume two number six in June of 1973 written by Don McGrager drawn by rich buckler Please note the much of till long till longer's origin was actually explored in black Panther

[00:46:26] In the rise of black Panther that I mentioned earlier which released from January to June of 2018 and till longer Which released from December of 2018 until March of 2019 so it was likely more influenced by his movie character that rather than influencing the movie character right and

[00:46:46] It's jungle action comics that was named in the title the title yeah the imprint was jungle action comics Or not the imprint put the like series the series. Yeah, okay And it wasn't characterized I actually went back and read some of it You know

[00:47:04] With that name I was like oh That's questionable But it it actually is a pretty good story arc I've been I've been kind of working through it That you know Panthers rage piece, but So

[00:47:22] To start with the stuff that kind of got retconned if you will or like I'd explain later in jocca was kidnapped by the cedacious dibway uh During the chaos caused by to chock as murder at the hands of claw in demway re-raised jocca

[00:47:45] To embrace his hate and rage towards inferior lands outside of Wakanda He gave him the name Eric to separate him from his roots Eric eventually killed in dibway and struck out on his own During the time on his own he would get to MIT where he would graduate

[00:48:05] with full honors he'd get a PhD in engineering and neural science and an MBA for some reason because that makes sense along with a PhD in engineering and neural science

[00:48:19] After his time in college he took up the charge of trying to kill claw which put him in touch with ping pin who who would start him down a path of being a contract killer During the time with ping pin he was crossed and

[00:48:34] Communed frequently with the goddess fast Who actually is who pushed him to take up the name kill longer He moved back to Wakanda and attempted to undermine and destabilize to challa's government Which then gets us to his origin story in the first

[00:48:50] Books that he was in so in that panther's rage arc He was he Was trying to disable as Wakanda with the help of venom with two ms so not the symbiot but a guy who uses snakes prey with two eyes which was his pet Jaguar I believe

[00:49:13] Sombray and King Diver Hillmonger was killed during the final battle of this arc Just kidding, no he wasn't the manhood found him and resurrected him You had me there for a second ride. I was like, guys finally

[00:49:30] To kill longer fell into a trap set by black Panther and Ironman and was killed again No, he wasn't it was a fake kill longer they killed kill longer followed black Panther to the US

[00:49:43] Clash with him in New York where he died after being crushed by the mass from a ship that black Panther had You know fight that involves claw daredevil black Panther and kill longer Just kidding, still not dead. We're now in the 2000s Kilmonger went back to the

[00:50:05] to Wakanda went for the cap of the list juggular the economy He was successful and became the king of Wakanda However when he tried to take the heart shape herb like I mentioned earlier since he wasn't overworld blood He went into a coma

[00:50:22] After he woke up from his coma, he ran through a couple more storylines and was you guessed it dead Now we get to the 2020s just kidding Space Wakanda attacked regular Wakanda and space in jocca's symbiot

[00:50:41] Revived killmonger and bonded with him allowing space in jocca to possess killmonger I'm gonna quote directly from Marvel database Because I Couldn't have written this better myself In jocca addressed his troops, but almost collapsed as he resurrected killmonger

[00:51:05] As the resurrected killmonger attempted to regain control of his body Retiring to the laboratory Yeah laboratory not laboratory laboratory laboratory the bathroom When jocca argued with killmonger Lists threatening to return him to death and mocking his vow to master the symbiot

[00:51:30] Basically at the end of this fight to chalicill them Maybe for good or at least till Marvel needs him back Comey wants shame on you Kill me 17 times shame on them

[00:51:46] Oh man moving over to our other villain and guys the villains are the weirdest ones of these honestly it gets way Sitboy from here claw Introduced fantastic for number 53 standlies jack Kirby Elysses claw is the son of a Nazi war criminal

[00:52:07] He moves to Belgium and actually in the comics angle sizes his name from the spelling that we see in the movies The Tla ue to C or to tell a W As an adult Elysses claw became a physicist working in applied sonic He

[00:52:28] designed a transducer capable of converting sound waves into physical mass that required by bringing in to work claw with the help of mercenaries and intel purchase from hydro went to Wakanda and

[00:52:39] demanded by bringing it to chock a turn to down the mercenaries open firefight ensued during the action Zery pierced claws right arm and to challa actually shut Shatters claws right hand with claws own sonic blaster A decade later Tried to attack the Wakondens again

[00:53:03] He was stopped by the fantastic for and to challa during this fight claw jumped into his own sonic converter and became living sound This is where you may notice that this diverts pretty significantly from the version we see in the movies

[00:53:20] He did lose the fight and was sent to prison To inevitably escape and join the masters and evil he spent the majority of the 70s going in and out of prison Doing battle with various heroes and hero teams Ultimately after working with the thunder

[00:53:36] Ultimately after working with a thunderbolt street gang not to be confused with the paramilitary anti-hero team claw was defeated when black Panther used claws sonic horn Against him causing his body to dissipate Of course he wasn't dead for reals. He's though this is comics

[00:53:59] His horn was being held at Pegasus when solar another supervillain Accidentally freedom from or who was sorry solar was accidentally freed from his containment cell Solar found Clause horn and in a fit of anger Through it against the wall The the vibrations

[00:54:24] From the device hitting the wall were enough to revive claw claw then possessed Dazzler and Would later possess galactuses starship Was eventually resurrected in a non-organic body by Dr. Doom so that Dr. Doom could cut Hearts off the body to make special lenses

[00:54:53] Then allowed Doom to siphate energy from galactus. Wow that's that's pretty wild Yeah, yeah I told you the villains get weird You did not disappoint Now that we're through that kind of journey into the weeds a little bit Clause been a frequent bee villain

[00:55:17] He's a frequent member of the frightful for which you're kind of an evil version of fantastic for if you will Most recently you helped create superior carnage Ultimately saving the day by actually stopping carnage

[00:55:32] Despite accepting his death and seeming to hint that his last action would make him Disappate into the sound wall of the universe He's actually been confirmed as being in a shield gated to Unity slash prison called the pleasant That's probably the most normal part of that whole story

[00:55:54] As promised it gets a little simpler here at least for the character sex queen remonda introduced in Marvel comic presents number 14 November of 1988 Specifically the story panthers quest part two for gotten corpses Written Dawn McGregor penciled by Jean Clawne

[00:56:17] Remonda is a South American or South African who left her country in search of help fighting the apartheid During her time away remonda Came upon a lost to Challa who had become lost accompanying his sister on a border inspection remonda

[00:56:39] Remonda was welcomed into Wakanda by Tachaka as a thanks for finding to Challa To Chaka and remonda fell in love and would eventually parent their only child together Sure During to Challa's teenage years remonda was abducted by whites premises

[00:56:57] After years of thinking that she'd left the country for another man To Challa found out about her capture and went to rescue her As of most recently remonda was gravely injured during a terrorist attack on Wakanda

[00:57:12] She lived and is currently walking with a cane, but is kind of an elder of Wakanda pretty normal story Zery this one's quick so Zery was introduced in black Panther volume three number one September of 1998 written by Christopher Priest drawn by Mark Tashara

[00:57:35] Zery is a warrior and oil companion to Chaka He is a special attendant to Ann Warrior for Kachalla Zery is also good friends with Thor and photon aka mona karambo In fact he made it clear that he wished to Challa would have married photon rather than storm

[00:57:55] Zery was killed alongside Wakabi While doing battle against more loan which is kind of a pretty big Spider-Man villain when Morela on attack Wakanda And this was during the time where Shuri was becoming the black Panther Zery defended died defending the ritual

[00:58:24] that allowed Shuri to begin the black Panther So those are all of our characters I have a couple All right, I have a little bit here on vibranium and a little a little bit on Wakanda as a country in the comics

[00:58:37] So vibranium was introduced as anti-metal in Daredevil number 13 December of 1965 and as Wakanda and vibranium in Fantastic Four number 53 and May of 1966 Stanley wrote both of those stories Jack Kirby drew both of those stories and John remeeded senior helped out with drawing the Daredevil story

[00:59:01] Libranium was deposited on earth by meteorite a million years ago there said to be five types of vibranium we know of Wakanda and Arctic and Arctic and three other unknown varieties Antarctic vibranium just a quick note on this we haven't seen it necessarily in the comics

[00:59:20] This is an anti-metal It's found in the savage lands in Antarctica I'm sorry we haven't seen these in a movie I'm going to go to your comics but anti-metal or anti-metal found in the savage land which for those familiar with X-Men

[00:59:39] That's the place where all the the dinosaurs are Anti-metal emanates vibrations that weaken the molecular bonds in other metals and liclifies them They can also negate it can also negate sonic attacks and open up doors into other dimensions if it is Subject to good bad Oh my god

[01:00:08] We'll do now rather than later right When you buy the way when you say you would have there are five different types of vibranium we've got seen them in the comics I was like is this your fan fiction but yeah, yeah, you know

[01:00:21] Find the wife find the law Wakanda and vibranium is is well represented in the MCU found exclusively in Wakanda distant past the first tribes discovered it Interesting little difference to the story here The when the first tribes discovered it they actually the radiation actually turned

[01:00:43] Some of the tribes been into what they called demon spirits But Shenga who is the first king of Wakanda prayed to baste for the power to defeat these demons and was given the power The black Panther during World War II Myron McClain Dr. Myron McClain actually

[01:01:02] Created an alloy of steel and vibranium and called it at a man's he In 1966 vibranium was valued at $10,000 a gram This would put the great mound which had about 10,000 tons of vibranium in it worth over nine billion dollars in 1966 dollars converting that for inflation that is 87

[01:01:31] billion dollars in today's movie for what the Dodgers hired showing a ton of foreign half I'm sorry, I'm gonna offer a couple digits my dad just a couple just a couple so yeah and and on

[01:01:50] The sale of the vibranium is what made Wakanda's economy what it is and Here we are Moving on to Wakanda Introduced fantastic forward number 52 April 1966 and Lee Jack Kirby Wakanda country is a country in South or in Africa its location has shifted a little bit over the years

[01:02:16] The the maps in jungle action which is kind of the first time we saw a map of Wakanda Had it first on the Atlantic coast and then literally two issues later, which is just a few months later They published a new map that

[01:02:36] filled in the space where they had the Atlantic Ocean and just put a little arrow pointing off to the side towards the Indian Ocean which would move it all the way across the continent of Africa essentially

[01:02:52] Later maps like the Marvel Atlas which came out in 2008 would place it on the shore of real world lake Tercana near modern-day Ethiopia south Sudan in Kenya And most recently in Black Panther, we're volume six number four July of 2016

[01:03:12] It actually placed Wakanda on the western shore of Lake Victoria Which would put it somewhere near real world Uganda and real one So it's kind of shifted around it's also shifted around in the MCU some

[01:03:28] The maps that have the blips on them has have moved around and I also didn't include in here You know, you tell type maps that's where stuff there's actually a big rabbit hole you can go down on just the shifting location of Wakanda

[01:03:44] I like to believe that's because they were Isolationist and kept their borders kind of secretive for a long time but There we are Uh

[01:03:57] Wouldn't to be a choice by the time to try to take over Wakanda is a generally open country before that like I mentioned isolationist doesn't really do a whole lot They're generally peaceful, but do have some run-ins with their fictional neighbors Nagonda and Azania

[01:04:13] As well as a near constant conflict with the underwater nation of Atlantis So Nagonda is kind of the stand-in for just other African country if you will kind of generalize African country Azania actually goes through apartheid goes through some of the

[01:04:34] More challenging civil rights issues that we're happening in in Africa So those were kind of the fictionalized versions that that Marvel would use to avoid Not putting real actions into the books so it turns like um

[01:04:50] Barring stories or influences from various other countries so like South Africa apartheid or what have you to like create these fictional countries Yeah, and I and I think by using a fictional country it made it a little bit more

[01:05:02] Easy to stomach right here you can disassociate it from real people going through this right a little bit Um Wakanda has a few major landmarks they call their they're all of their cities are Burnin and then a name of a black Panther so

[01:05:21] Burnin to Chaka is the city that that Challa most recently was a resident of where he was vigilante in if you will It's actually up on the border of the Javari lands it is the city with the coolest climate in Wakanda

[01:05:39] You've the Javari lands which are the mountainous region of Wakanda home to the Javari tribe the Javari lands served as a haven for the time displaced future to Challa when when he came there and also there was a Village of liberated women that that played a major role

[01:06:01] during the Civil War conflict in the comics and they actually developed the the night angels there You have Mina Nagi which is the great mound which is where vibranium is man mine um it is quite separate from the capital city which you don't really get a good

[01:06:28] feel for the geography during the movie here but it is quite separate from the capital city in the comics you have the alcama fields which are kind of the the pasture lands if you will this area banks up the order the border between Wakanda and maganda

[01:06:52] It's either incredibly prosperous or fighting massive drought depending on where in the comics you're reading it kind of it goes back and forth on that it actually has served to be kind of a peacekeeping peace several times between Wakanda and maganda because Wakanda is willing to share the

[01:07:14] bounties of that area when it is bound to fall with Wakanda The abernan zana which is the golden city capital city of Wakanda is the majority of what we see in the MCU zana is also home to the to the necropolis city of the dead

[01:07:32] to Chala ruled over this area as king of the dead well well to Chala was king of the dead the aluminati also used the necropolis as their base of operations In the comics 18 tribes united to form Wakanda

[01:07:54] we have not reprepresentatives of all 18 tribes and also I will not go into a long diet tribe about all of the ones that we have met but i do want to highlight four kind of cool ones that i found here

[01:08:06] So the marubae tribe this is a tribe that works to find natural ways to refine and use vibranium this includes you know trying to find ways to use it for healing also using it for tattoos which we see a little bit of in the movie

[01:08:21] the hyena clan which is a splinter group of the plant of the panther clan formed when their their leaders father was rejected by basting killed by eating the heart shape herb they left Wakanda and became nomadic scavengers across the african continent

[01:08:43] the jibari tribe and the white gorilla cult religion this is captured well in the movie they are the rival to the panther tribe they worship the ape god jikur they're sorry uh jahirki which is outlawed in Wakanda at large

[01:09:06] their version of the heart shaped herb is a ritual where they hunt and kill a white kill it bay then it's blood and eat its meat she's it's Christ yeah and then the blat the panther tribe cult we see this this is the ruling tribe in Wakanda

[01:09:26] this is the folks that were most familiar right these are the the royals that's what i can so those are those are kind of some of the the more interesting tribes i would say

[01:09:38] i can say the comics still haven't even shown us all a teen but they have stated that they're were a teen there's also like an i-bus pole it's a crocodile pole uh all kinds of stuff and generally speaking the religion of Wakanda is based around um

[01:09:56] gods from actually the Egyptian pantheon that uh become the Wakanda man by the way i should clarify i am not anti eating meat uh i am anti-paving in the blood

[01:10:09] that's not a problem that is where i draw the line but yeah so that is our comic history for this one um listers trust me i know that there were some omissions those were intentional

[01:10:21] we'll bring it back don't you worry don't worry there'll be uh there'll be a 30 minute session on ancient Ross in there oh right David so that gets us through the details we are

[01:10:35] currently at like an hour of recording so what i'm gonna do is i'm gonna cut this now we're gonna go ahead and split um so after the split we'll talk about the movie and we'll we'll

[01:10:47] break it down and we'll actually get into the scene breakdown uh so join us after that split and we'll see you guys there