Puny Pod | Phase 3 Episode 4 - Spider-Man: Homecoming Part 1

[00:00:00] Welcome to Puny Pod, the podcast that was watching... ...or... ...uh, welcome to Puny Pod everyone, the podcast where we rewatch the MCU in release order ...and we cover Marvel news over on our monthly People episodes.

[00:00:43] My name is Ryan and my co-host aka My Guy In The Chair is David. I realized after putting that in as my quote for this week that... ...you don't sit in a chair when we record, so that's kind of funny. It's okay.

[00:01:00] That's alright, I thought it's pretty well. It's a pretty good one. I wasn't quite sure we were going to go with the intro. I'll take that one. That's good. How's it going? It's going pretty good. It's going pretty good. I am ready for a...

[00:01:14] ...a lot of podcasting today. Listeners, I'm going to proactively say this and watch now... ...we're going to like blitz through this and you guys are going to get our first 15 minutes episodes ever.

[00:01:27] But we are going to split this one up and potentially the rest of them for this phase... ...because I think the rest of them deserve this. We are going to split this up to where... ...before here in part one what you're listening to right now...

[00:01:45] ...this is all going to be kind of the production details. This is also an introductory movie. So I'm going to be talking about some comic stuff and... ...oh boy, does that comic stuff get weird? Because it's Spider-Man. And so what we'll do is we'll split this up.

[00:02:03] This will be part one. You'll listen to this and then over in part two... ...you can listen to us talk about the actual movie, right? So if you don't care about the production details or the comic stuff... ...you can skip over straight over to the movie and get...

[00:02:18] ...watch the rehash. I am going to say we put a lot of work and a lot of research into the production details and the comic details. And I think at least for the comic details, there's some really fun stuff in there.

[00:02:29] I'm sure that the production details has some good stuff too. So stick with this episode. Then check out part two where we are discussing the actual movie. But yeah, so with that all being said... ...I don't know that I said what movie we're covering.

[00:02:47] I've made it two and a half minutes into the episode. I'm blathering on about parts and splits and all that stuff. We are covering Spider-Man homecoming today. Spider-Man has come home to Marvel and we are covering it. So with that being said...

[00:03:06] ...David, you want to give us your production details? Sure, why not. Let's do this. Spider-Man homecoming is the movie we saw this week. Released July 7, 2017. This is the first standalone MCU Spider-Man movie. And as Ryan Euludutu, homecoming is a not-to-spotterman's inclusion in the MCU.

[00:03:33] This movie also pushed back. One of those significance is it pushed back the release of Black Panther and Captain Marvel. Which were delayed for some other reasons as well, which we'll get into when we get to those movies. This is phase 3, 4th installment.

[00:03:47] MCU movie number 16, runtime 2 hours 13 minutes. From the production perspective we talked about it on the Captain America Civil War episode. So we won't get into quite as much detail about how to get back into the MCU. So we talked about it before.

[00:04:09] In the 90s, Marvel is almost on the big. It's going out of business. For bankruptcy, 96. And wasn't in a position to make it on movies. So they did what they did for toys and basically licensed everything out. 94, 94, Fox, here's the right to the X-Men for $1 million.

[00:04:27] Pretty good deal. So that's the right for Daredevil. Actually, it had a fantastic. For total of 2.6 million in 1999, Sony opt for Marvel. $10 million plus 5% of movie gross plus 50% of toy sales for the Spider-Man movie rights.

[00:04:44] Marvel countered by offering the rights to every remaining character that it had which Sony turned down. And as I said, was famously quoted. So an executive here, Lando says, nobody gives an exponent about the other Marvel characters. Ha ha ha. Always cracks me up.

[00:05:02] 2227 is the Sam, Rami Tralegy. In the Spider-Man movies that they started losing, didn't work making as much money as they were. The revenue was kind of steadily shrinking. So Marvel approached Sony about a collaboration, Fage met with Amy Pascal of Sony Pictures, who is an executive producer,

[00:05:23] and they'd collaborated to get for many years. They had a pretty healthy working relationship. And so Fage went to tell her that, hey, look, another, a third amazing Spider-Man movie is not going to work. You can see the trend.

[00:05:36] So Fage explained that Sony should just let Marvel do the film without Disney purchasing the rights. It's basically there's no change of hands, no change of money, just let us produce it. Let us make it. Pascal responded by throwing a sandwich at him

[00:05:52] until they get the eff out of my office. But quickly kind of came around. And so in 2015, they struck a deal and that's how we got to where we are now. They, before this film was announced, Sony was playing to build a universe

[00:06:13] not too dissimilar to the MCU using only Spider-Man characters. But Marvel originally considered integrating the original, the amazing Spider-Man character, IE, Andrew Garfield into. But at this point in time, it's like 30 or so. He can't put Spider-Man anymore. So the financials. So Spider-Man homecoming production budget was 174.

[00:06:46] 175 million, as compared to amazing Spider-Man 2 due to look at Paris was 200 billion. So 25 million cheaper. Opening weekend, 17 million for Spider-Man homecoming, 92 million for Spider-Man 2, domestic gross, 334 million for homecoming, 233 million for Spider-Man 2. Well, by gross, 87 million versus 799 million. So you know, kind of proof that financially Marvel knew how

[00:07:13] to produce a very good Spider-Man movie, which could tie in with the Avengers, which the Sony's cannot. Right? Yeah. Well, I gross. It was homecoming was number six in 2017 behind Jumanji, welcome to the jungle, which made almost a billion dollars. And yeah, right? That one, jaw dropping.

[00:07:34] And right ahead of Guardians of the Galaxy, if I'm two and Thor Ragnarok, it is the number 12 MCU movie of all time. Right behind Dr. Strange, the multi-first madness and right ahead of Guardians of the Galaxy, volume two. Rant Tomatoes, critics loved it, 92% audience 87%.

[00:07:53] So it is the number six all time we've been in the MCU. Not everyone loved this movie. I'm gonna steal something from how this get made. And I'm gonna read one star reviews from Amazon. WJ said, WJ said, quote, the characters are hard to relate to.

[00:08:11] Beginning of the movie, a cell film to Spider-Man, it's also confusing. It's like you were jumping into the middle of the movie. I wish you could get my money back. There is a little bit of crew humor. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, sorry Spider-Man is so unrelatable.

[00:08:32] Stephanie B wrote, The kids and I never got to watch the movie. We started it, but due to my health condition, we had to stop it and deal with that. Wait, we didn't read the limitations on the right. So once you start it, you have to finish it.

[00:08:46] Or if not, you have 30 day, this I'm reading it for beta. That's an extreme in both directions. Waste our money won't do it again. We'll just use red box. So nothing to do with the movie. It's just like Amazon, it's weird in the options.

[00:08:59] Anyway, director is John Watts, who directed clown, directed cop car, other directors. They talked quite a few. And Watts was so determined to be the director of the film that he made a lot of the day. He bothered marvel by sending them clips of fake trailers.

[00:09:17] He made for a Spider-Man movie, creating reals next theory as Peter Parker's mentor. Others consider where John's in Levine, 50, 50, Theodore Melphi, hit the figure, it's Jason Moore, Pitch Perfect, Jared Hess, Napoleon Dynamite, John Francis, Dale and John of the Gold, seen vacation, we're all considered.

[00:09:36] Watts was able to read the divorce script, talk with the Rusos, and was on the set for the film and the Spider-Man scenes in that film. So he's able to see what they were going to do with it. And you know, they've, you know,

[00:09:46] 've had some notes both ways. And on joining the MCU and director of the film, Watts said he was excited to explore the ground level of the MCU, a world where characters like the metrics exist, but only been depicted in previous films

[00:10:02] at the, quote, penthouse level of the Marvel world. From a movie influence, and if just looking at the directors, they looked at it. They are going for a John Hughes kind of, you know, film, if you will. So John once said this,

[00:10:19] made it's British first take on a high school Peter who was ultimate Spider-Man by Bendis and Spider-Man loves Harry Jane. And for, and again, going to the ground level, if you will, Vaggy said about the culture, we wanted to get around the world to parallel

[00:10:33] Peter's journey of what's like to be a normal person in this world. And an example that Amy Pascal used and I became a touch point was a film by Kira Kersauer called High and Low, which Vaggy said he had seen before.

[00:10:45] He watched a number of times and that there was just who was exposing to a great movie never seen before. It was such a great touch point of inspiration from Amy about somebody who looks up at a wealthy person almost in a tower every day in their life

[00:10:58] and feels the need to respond to that in a villainous way and to quote, which I thought that was very interesting as we see the the vulture a much more three dimensional villain than I think we've seen in the MCU today for a lot of big bads. Yeah.

[00:11:13] Yeah. Screenplay, Jonathan Goldstein and John Francis Daley wrote who wrote horrible bosses wanted to hide it with chance to meet ball two and vacation along with John Watts. So Daley and Goldstein after missing out on the director role began negotiations to write the screenplay

[00:11:29] and we're given three days to present them over with their pitch. Mm-hmm. Both confirmed Shirley that after that reached a deal to write the screenplay, the cast. We have for the most part a all new cast except for Tom Holland as Peter Parker.

[00:11:50] He is one of three Peter Parker's to date, Tony McGuire and Graffield. And I guess we miles more Alice, which we'll see later. So Holland to prepare for the movie, he attended a high school in the Bronx, Bronx High School of Science to prepare for the role

[00:12:12] where the other students didn't believe he was cast a spider band. So you can imagine this kind of outsider feeling who's this new guy, what's, you know, that sure you're doing this movie, kind of thing. And he felt this would carry over well

[00:12:28] where the other students don't suspect Peter of being spider band. The, if you remember in Iron Man 2, there was a part of the fan theory that the little kid, right, where the Iron Man mask was Peter Parker and Fygy then confirmed that theory

[00:12:50] and that he, you know, basically Tom Holland like that theory goes to Fygy. Fygy says, okay, sure, we'll confirm that it's the same kid. The movie stars Michael Keaton as Adrian Tumes slash falcher, although I don't think he's ever called the Vulture.

[00:13:08] He is not, he's not until I think the next movie will be referred to him as that Vulture guy. But yeah, we might refer to him as a Vulture guy because it's short, it's easier than Adrian Tumes. But he wanted him to be a regular guy.

[00:13:24] So kind of think like John C. Rylays, Nova Corps Roman Day from Guardians, rather than other MCU villains. Jacob Badlon as Ned Leads. He is the coproduce that said that Ned and other characters in the film are composites and I know you're gonna get into this

[00:13:44] when you're getting to the comic stuff of several other favorites in Spiderman comics. Glee, whose Miles Rylays is friend, we have Laura Harrier as Liz, Robert A. Jr. appears as Tommy Stark again, John Favre was happy, Hogan, Boe Keen Woodbine plays Herman Schultz slash shocker number two,

[00:14:06] which I just got, cracks me up in the credits. Risa Tome is made Parker. This caused a lot of backlash on social media. This might come to surprise, but comic book fans are kind of particular about certain things. And they're saying way too young,

[00:14:24] way too attractive to portray the character. Rosemary Harris was 74 in Spiderman 2 and 79 when she went in the final Spiderman 3 shoes and Sally started 65 in the amazing Spiderman and 67 amazing Spiderman 2, a result of a 51 in this film. But Steven McFeely, who co-wrote Civil War said that for the MCU,

[00:14:49] they were trying to make Peter as naturalistic as possible. And that's partly why he's on his 80 years old. If she's basically, if she's the sister of your dead mother or father, why did that? Why should two generations have had? So yeah. That's fair.

[00:15:07] She is always depicted as like white hair, like dressing gown type of situation in the comics, but it does make it a little bit more relatable to have a shorter age gap there. And I didn't, you know, even I didn't, it didn't occur to me at the time

[00:15:26] but I, on, on, wreck, you know, we're calling it now. I always thought that he referred them as an uncle, but they weren't an uncle. They were like, you know, great aunt, great uncle or some of the relative,

[00:15:40] because they just, they look like he years old in the comics. Or so we have Donald Glover as Aaron Davis, which was designed as a surprise treat for fans because Dave's mentioned his cousin is nephew. I mean, yep. And that he, you know,

[00:15:59] basically it was Donald Glover or no one else and that if he wasn't going to, if he declined the offer, he was not to just, they were just gonna take character out of the movie. Well, in what's cool is he voiced miles in the anime series.

[00:16:12] So like it was a cool little treat of just like, and it's another community cross over so. Totally. And he makes a little stamp on in, in Black Panther, gives a line for, we'll look at it. We're not there yet. There it up there.

[00:16:32] It's in Dave plays Michelle Jones, aka MJ. John wants like in the character to Alisheedys, Allison from the Breakfast Club. The character isn't a direct adaptation of Mary Jane Watson, which you will get into in great detail, but was given the initial MJ2 quote,

[00:16:51] remind you of that to Nama. Without while with the writers planning the scenes in this movie for comparisons to MJ Watson, but also making her completely and wholly different. He also, you know, noted that like MJ this movie is not obsessed with Parker like Watson

[00:17:06] as at the times in the comics. She's quote, just observant. The character of the former MJ, remind me what's the actor's name? We had Chris, you're Sundance. That's right. That led to me in front of him and having a huge argument one time.

[00:17:28] He thought Chris and then so more tack from the Scraught J hands than we did this yesterday. Long running argument anyway. Neither here nor there. We have McLean as Phoenix Mason slash the Tinker. We have Logan Marshall Green as Bryce Jackson slash

[00:17:48] shocker number one, Tony Rebellori as Flash Thompson in the comics. I mean, Flash is like big, you know, football player, halfway, you know, dumb, jok, if you will. But here he's imagine it's like rich, mugged kid to reflect kind of the modern views

[00:18:09] of like bullying, like social media versus like some, you know, shoving him in a locker in high school. His depiction was largely informed about Holland's visit to the Bronx School of Science. Now it should be also be noted that the comics character is white and the actor here

[00:18:28] is Guada, Mollon American and received death threats upon his casting. So thanks, thanks, MC fans. Former Flash was for my me again. Joe Manginelo played Flash in the Sam Ramey movies. I forget who flash also appeared in the amazing Spider-Man movies but in the Sam Ramey ones, yeah,

[00:18:53] he was played by Joe Manginelo who now is involved in DC stuff. He's over there to end death stroke stuff. Yeah, yeah. Martin Star as Roger Harrington, aka the computer nerd from the Incredible Hulk who was confirmed that is the in fact same character.

[00:19:12] We have Michael Mendo's Maccargon. This is the first live action appearance at Maccargon, also known as the Spider-Man villain Scorpion. Andrew Rice's Betty Brandt, Tine Daily, shows up for some random reason as Anne Rioge. We get a little bit of Chris Evans

[00:19:29] and some fun PSAs as Captain America. We have Avril Jorge Leninburg Jr. as Jason Eonello and Gwyneth Paltro, sneaks in for 45 seconds of work. This is her fourth. This is her fourth. She's built fourth. Yeah, Spider-Man homecoming. She's in this movie for a period of time

[00:19:54] which is shorter than I could hold my breath. I was watching the credits and I see what it's paltro pop up. I was like, wow, I must have followed a sleep or something because that can't be that deep in the credits already.

[00:20:07] And nope, she gets that fourth building. Yeah, I noted in the outline like what the number of represents the billing here, like Zendag gets fifth. Like, Marisa to make its 12. So anyway, what a culture has a little bit of pull. My favorite story and this is pretty famous

[00:20:33] but John Favreau is taping an episode of Chef Show and talks about them being in the movie together and she was like, shocked. She was like, no, I wasn't in Spider-Man. I was at the adventure, she had no idea. Now, I will also say that in fairness,

[00:20:51] a lot of the stuff, it's not very a problem at all and you never have the stuff shot. So it could have been shot in the same day that she was filling some Avengers stuff or whatever, and that's totally fine.

[00:21:02] We have came out Stinley as Gary, Jennifer Conley, aka wife of Alcatan, just left my brain vision. I almost said Benedict Cumberbatch which is entirely wrong. No, Paul Betney. Paul Betney, thank you. She plays Karen and unfortunately named AI to these days and Kerry Conley plays Friday.

[00:21:27] The films cast includes three Oscar winners, mercy to many Jennifer Conley, what a pal-tro, actually four now with Robert Dining Jr. as well as one now, named Michael Keaton and this holds the record for the most Oscar winners to be featured in MCF film.

[00:21:42] So casting, you know, we talked about them before briefly but Spider-Man, they went through a lot of names. Charlie Row, for Rocky Man, was the run-up. Timothy Schalame, a Spotter Butterfield, Matt Lens, KJAPA Joseph Quinn who played Johnny Storm and Fentastro IV and Tony Rubelory

[00:22:06] who plays Flash Thompson also auditioned for the Vulture. John Lenguzamo was approached and was later often a smaller role. He said quote, I was supposed to be the Vulture we negotiated and I was about to play him and they said that Michael Keaton wanted it back

[00:22:21] and they asked me for how we'd give it up and I said well, okay I guess. They said quote, no, we'll work with you again. We're going to, and that's what happened here. Also, expressing interest, we're considered Gary Olman, Michael Shannon, Woody Harrelson, and Mark Hamel,

[00:22:36] which would have been kind of fun. Salaries, Michael Keaton made 12 million bucks for this film. Not bad. Not bad all, Rob Denjie made 10 million for, that's like a million bucks a minute, Tom Holland made $1 million for this film. Well, 250 for Civil War, it made 500 plus a little bit

[00:22:57] of the gross. He will make up more than make up for it. And they made 300,000, Resetemade made 250 as did Jacob battle on. So there's a, in the credits, there's a special thanks to Brian Michael Bendis Eric Colon, Don Heck, Jack Kirby, Larry Lieber, Dwayne McDuffie, Sarah Pachelli,

[00:23:18] and John Ramita, Captain America created by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. And I have the feeling some of those names are going to come up. This you talk about the comic book background. Absolutely, they will. Absolutely. Well, definitely appreciate the production background.

[00:23:36] Now, to move over to some comic book history and that's sort of thing. And I want to say I wrote this with the idea in mind of giving you the listener a lot of details so that you can kind of understand

[00:23:50] where the characters are at, not only in this movie but where they're going to be going forward. These movies continue and so definitely want to kind of give you some things there like, oh, maybe they'll do that someday. Grab a pen and paper kiss

[00:24:03] because it will be a quiz at the end. So for this research, I also want to pre-empt this by saying that I focused primarily on Earth 616, which is the main line Marvel comics. There's a few places where I'll mention some alternate universes and I do want to say

[00:24:23] that like Spider-Man stuff gets really weird. And so if you're listening to this and you're like, that's not the story I heard. It's probably been turned into an alternate universe or Mephisto, his rewritten history or whatever has happened.

[00:24:39] So this was really convoluted research, so please hang with me. I tried to distill this down to make it really easy to understand. So starting off here with Peter Parker, introduced in amazing fantasy number 15 June of 1962, written by Stan Lee, drawn by Steve Dicco.

[00:25:04] We all know the backstory of Peter Parker pretty well at this point but just to be safe I'm gonna go through a very quick and rough version. Peter Parker is orphaned when his parents who were CIA operatives are killed by Red School.

[00:25:18] He then goes to live with his Aunt May and Uncle Ben from about the age of six and beyond. The age of 15, Peter Parker is bitten by an irradiated spider in gains his superpowers. Important to note that in the comics, Oz Corp is not where the spider was.

[00:25:35] It was just, yeah, I forget the name of the science group that was working on a, something with radiation anyways. Bit the spider bit, Peter got there, got the powers. One thing leads to another Uncle Ben is killed. Peter is convinced that if you have big skills

[00:25:57] you're obliged to use them well or something like that. Spider Man is arguably the foremost Marvel Solo Hero. But over the years, he's joined a few teams, most notably the Fantastic Four which went by the name The Future Foundation at the time and the Avengers.

[00:26:16] When he was bitten by the spider, Peter gained proportional strength to a spider so they can lift 10 times their body weight. Peter can lift 10 times his body weight. He was also given super speed, super durability, super healing, super reflexes, super stamina, super agility as well as the ability

[00:26:36] to climb walls and a pre-cognitive ability that we like to call his Peter Tingle. I mean, Spider Sense. Outside these abilities, so outside, you know, kind of what he brought to the equation that wasn't necessarily the spider giving it to him. Peter is incredibly strong will.

[00:26:58] We see that depicted in this movie, it's depicted in the comics over and over and over again where he just can kind of tap into this incredibly strong will and do feats that even make his super powers seem dwarfed in the power that he does for these moments,

[00:27:19] like lifting up the debris and that sort of thing. Question for you. Yeah. In the comics, it may be a get to this. I see Nourcol was one version of Spider Man that could produce webs like through his wrists and that other ones they have, the web shooters.

[00:27:35] Do you remember what it was like at the beginning? Yeah. So at the beginning it was web shooters. There is a arc where he is working with the lizard, Dr. Conner's. And he's doing some things that are like one trying to cure his,

[00:27:55] it kind of goes back and forth between trying to get rid of the powers and enhance them. And at one point or another, he does pick up some biological attributes of a spider and one of those is producing the webs from his wrists. That went away.

[00:28:13] That was kind of a short lived thing. Now Sam Ramey did use that obviously in the 2002 Spider Man or Spider Man movie series. But yeah, web shooters are his primary thing, which kind of plays into Peter Parker's always been incredibly smart.

[00:28:29] He's not quite like Tony Stark Bruce Banner level genius, but he's a very, very smart kid and probably could get there with more training and more learning and that sort of thing. He develops his own webs. Exactly. He's incredibly inventive.

[00:28:44] He's always got the spider gadgets to do all kinds of stuff. He's developed stealth suits. He's developed his web shooters like we mentioned that's kind of Peter Parker's like pieces that he brings to the equation. The other thing that he always brings to the equation

[00:29:04] is he is inherently good. He is completely free of any evil and any corruption. At points in the comics, this has been explored to really great effect. Right? Somebody has mine controlled him into a corruption or the symbiots who has corrupted him and it's a really interesting investigation.

[00:29:30] Peter is always looking to do the next right thing, which is a very key part of his character leads to the death of some of his friends sometimes. You know, aka death of Gwen Stacy Ark. It is definitely a key part of his character.

[00:29:56] He's also bilingual, he knows Mandarin and he's a great photographer, which plays a pretty key part of his story as well. Throughout the year, Spider-Man has involved a lot of romantic relationships, but I'm going to highlight three that are really, I think, important to his character here.

[00:30:19] So you have Mary Jane Watson. We'll talk about a little bit more in a bit. We have Gwen Stacy who has not been represented in the MCU as far as we know. And Felicia Hardy, who is in the comics as the superhero, the black cat.

[00:30:41] She has also not been in the MCU yet. But those are kind of Peter's three main stays. He also has been involved with Black Widow and Liz Allen and all kinds of other characters. So but those are kind of the three that play the biggest part here.

[00:30:59] There are so many stories. I'll actually talk a little bit about how many appearances Spider-Man has in a little bit here, but so many stories and so much like multiverse and rewriting history and undoing things that it is very convoluted,

[00:31:20] but I wanted to give some highlights of Peter Parker. So he starts off as a high school kid. This is kind of the Peter Parker we're getting in the MCU's high school Peter Parker. He does grow up, he does go to college in colleges

[00:31:37] where he actually meets Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborne. During his time knowing Gwen Stacy, he fails to save both Gwen Stacy and her dad. During these arcs, he is kind of cast as the bad guy, right? Because he's on the scene during these deaths,

[00:32:03] he's accused of killing both of these characters, which again, this is another really key component to the Peter Parker character is he is incredibly secretive about his identity. And so Spider-Man is kind of a cast as a villain pretty frequently

[00:32:22] by the public, thanks to thanks in no small part to Jay Jonah Jameson but he is a little bit vigilante but and so there is some dispersions cast upon him frequently. Peter Parker got cloned, giving us the super cool and super chill then Riley and Cain.

[00:32:47] He picked up a cool alien costume that's black, he married Mary Jane in a very, very famous comic book cover. He bargained with Mufisto, he went to the ultimate universe so Earth 616 Peter Parker traveled to the ultimate universe which also has its own Peter Parker

[00:33:10] and another Spider-Man by the name of Miles Morales. He discovered the existence of a multiversial spider army and was required to join set army and he also, well, he sort of. So one of the more recent comic book runs Peter died

[00:33:37] in the body of auto-lockedavius and auto-ockedavius possessed Peter Parker's body and during that time he started a company called Parker Industries. That arc is a little maligned, it's really interesting, to kill one of your flagship characters in his arch nemesis's body

[00:34:00] but it has been, so that arc is past, that's a superior Spider-Man arc and now Peter, as of most recently, Peter is back in his own body. He was struck by craving the hunter with a spear that essentially gave Peter

[00:34:19] all the evil of Norman Osborne and turned him into a ruthless killing machine hell bent on revenge to everybody who ever longed him. So that's kind of, that is the quick and dirty version of the Spider-Man story.

[00:34:39] I did want to highlight some alternate universe Peter Parker's slash spider-man. I tried to stay with ones that are kind of Peter Parker-E. I tried to stay away from Miguel and Miles Morales and that's all stuff because they'll, I'm sure someday they'll get their own thing.

[00:35:01] So here we have an alternate universe that is sentient vehicles where we have Peter Parked Car which is a kind of looks like a little dune buggy car that is a sentient spider-man.

[00:35:18] You have Peter Parker, which is a spider who was bit by a pig and given all the limitations of a pig. Is it spider-ham? Yes spider-ham. Er 13, the er 13 version of Peter Parker is Captain Universe. So he is incredibly powerful.

[00:35:43] He's known as the Celestial Spider-Man in a run of cross-branded comic books and adds there was a hostess spider-man whose ability was to use hostess cakes as weapons. I don't hate it, I like it.

[00:36:03] You have spiders, man, which is a hive mind of spiders that all group together to become a man. The earth 11638 Peter Parker is a situation where Ben never dies and so Uncle Ben never dies. Uncle Ben trains Peter and then through some various storytelling mechanics and whatnot

[00:36:30] Peter actually gets the spirit of vengeance which is Ghost Rider and so he becomes Ghost Spider and has a flaming skull that he's flying around with. And then one of my favorites you have Peter or Ter, I think it's Ter because I think the

[00:36:52] peas are silent here so it's Ter Tarker which is spider-rax. A dinosaur with spider-man powers. There's also Atlanta Braves, he turns when he merges with the Atlanta Braves pitcher and it becomes Spencer spider. Dunno, Dunno. Plus it'd be out of character, he's a metspan. We see this.

[00:37:19] That is true. That is true. I also getting Tomichon surgery so we've not been able to see spider-man swing with one arm anyway. Womp, womp. Yeah so like I mentioned there is a Peter Parker that exists in the ultimate universe.

[00:37:37] However, one to save your ears, two to save myself some research, I am going to save that one for a future date. We'll talk a little bit more about the ultimate universe spider-man in a future episode because he inspired a character who may be coming back around.

[00:37:59] Come on, mole man, I'm waiting for it. So that is the comics history of spider-man. Now I did also want to take a minute to talk a little bit about spider-man and just the sales behemoth that spider-man comics are.

[00:38:16] So comics numbers are a little bit fuzzy, kind of hard to research. They aren't released well. And so there is some debate about all the numbers I'm going to share with you. I want to preface this by saying that. So talking about best selling comics of all time

[00:38:33] can be a little challenging. A lot of times what it boils down to is like comic books or comic distributor, comic book companies or comic distributors, kind of just brag about their best selling comic. They don't really release the stuff about the lesser selling comics a whole lot.

[00:38:52] According to comic vine, who which is a website that kind of aggregates comic information and is a really good resource for this kind of thing, spider-man has appeared in 17,294 comics to date, which is the most out of any Marvel character. The second being Wolverine who's

[00:39:16] appeared in about 16,000, X-Men as a whole team appeared in about 13,000 and then cap is in third place as far as individual characters go at 11,000 appearances. Additionally to this, according to Polygon who kind of put together the top 10 best selling

[00:39:40] comics based on their research, there are three specific issues of spider-man in the top 10 best selling single issue comics of all time. So the free comic book day edition of ultimate spider-man number one from 2002 comes in at number five. 631,990 copies of this

[00:40:08] issue were sold. It was re-released in 2002, this is what sold all these copies was a re-release of a 2000 comic and it was released to coincide with Sam Rayme's spider-man. Coming in at number

[00:40:31] six, we have amazing spider-man number one from 2014. This sold 559200 copies. It was one of the more modern reboots of spider-man kind of a return to form after the early 2000s. So like up to 2010 and

[00:40:56] late 90s there was a lot of weirdness. Marvel didn't really know what they wanted to do with spider-man. So there's a lot of weirdness and this was kind of the return to form for first spider-man.

[00:41:12] And then a comic that kind of sometimes comics sell a lot because people are excited about them. Sometimes they sell a lot because they have something interesting about that. Coming in at number eight on the top 10 selling comics of all time selling 530,000,

[00:41:30] 500 copies is amazing spider-man number 583. Now that sounds super random. I'll tell you the date it was released on was January 15th, 2009. Now if that's not ringing any bells for you that's okay. The reason this one was so popular is this is a story where Spider-man meets the president

[00:41:55] who is being inaugurated aka Barack Obama. So Barack Obama appeared on a very cover of this comic. It sold like hotcakes people were really excited at the time to pick that up. So that is number eight on the top 10 best selling comics of all time. How many episodes?

[00:42:21] I mean, how many comments would they sell if they re-did that in January 2021? And Black Spider-man, Spider-man joins in the interaction at the Capitol. You can let people on top of the roof. I'm just kidding.

[00:42:40] Now I should know for your good David, I had to include this note. Do you know what the number one, oh, I know you're reading the documents so you may have read that read ahead but

[00:42:49] did you know prior to this what the number one selling comic of all time was? I did not. So the number one selling comic of all time is X-Men number one from 1991. For those who aren't

[00:43:02] super familiar with comics, you're probably like what I thought X-Men was older than the 90s. It is. They reset the the numbering way too frequently in my opinion. But X-Men number one from 1991 sold a staggering

[00:43:18] 8 million 166,500 copies. That is eight times the second place which I think was a super main comic if I remember right. The 90s was a wild time for comics. The 90s was like sales

[00:43:34] many of her comics. Yeah, it sounds like there's also a boom in like sports card entries as well. Like that's like that's like the 90s. You could say like the junk wax era where if you were like a rookie

[00:43:46] in 92 or 93, like your baseball card isn't worth anything. Just because it was billions made. Do you know what the record is? Now you talk about records. Do you know what the record

[00:43:56] sale for a comic book is? Oh, it just got set like last year I want to say and I think because there was an action comics if I remember right. Well as of this writing, this is from September

[00:44:09] 2020 when I inherited art heritage auctions. Amazing fantasy number 15 created at a 9.6. Yeah, sold for 3.6 million dollars. That's wild. That is wild. That the throne action comics number one which is greater 8.5 that was 3.25 million. So yeah, it's a lot of money. A lot of bread. And for those on

[00:44:37] know where action comics is Superman. Yeah, that's DC. Yeah. Based on the numbers moving over to like issues sold right? So we just talked about individual issues. I tried to find if there was anywhere that kind of culminated issues sold.

[00:44:57] It's a little again little fuzzy here but based on numbers pulled from comic, cron and what culture through 2019 which then numbers get a little weird diamond comics who's the big distributor in the comics game stopped releasing the data was releasing in 2020. So the numbers kind of Peter

[00:45:21] 2019. But there has been there as of 2019, there had been 387 million copies of Spider-Man Comics sold. This is the best selling Marvel Comics series. Xman comes in second at 260 million copies only Batman and Superman outsell Spider-Man which is just crazy. That's crazy to me like

[00:45:54] who's buying a Superman comic? I mean yeah, I find the character. And I have to imagine those are legacy numbers right? Like as far as I'm aware and maybe it's just the people I surround myself with

[00:46:07] but nobody's buying Superman comics anymore and I'm sure it had a heyday when in the the 90s and the 80s when people were buying a lot but it's been a while since I've known somebody who really loves Superman. Yeah and that doesn't even include like digital sales right?

[00:46:28] Yeah and stuff in the last five years. And that is the thing that's when I'm presenting these numbers and it said it and I said it Petered off in 2019. I ain't realistically these numbers are going to

[00:46:41] be largely unaltered by 2019 and beyond. Knowing the comics industry the way I do, a lot of things are moving to digital. The comic book companies are introducing the equivalent excuse me of streaming platforms. So Marvel has Marvel unlimited which I actually used to do a lot

[00:47:04] of the like research where I need to actually read a comic or something. DC has an equivalent to that where you pay monthly and you get access to their whole library. So comic book shops are closing left

[00:47:17] and right or doing away with their comic selections just because people aren't reading paper and reading. Right? So yeah overall Spider-Man is really this tent pole character for Marvel which I think helps explain why Spider-Man really has had the the most representation in any

[00:47:41] media right? He's had the most TV shows. He's had the most movies. He is he is he's this behemoth and that's why this movie was so important to bring him back into our mainline movie

[00:47:57] universe. Moving on there's more characters and I promise all the rest of these characters their description is much shorter than Spider-Man's 17,000 issues is a lot to try and condense but everybody else is a lot more. So up next we have our main antagonist here which is the

[00:48:22] Vulture aka Adrian Thooms introduced in amazing Spider-Man number two. February 1963 written by Stan Lee drawn by Steve Dickcoe. Adrian Thooms was an electrical engineer who invented a magnetic harness which allowed the where-or-to-fly. After finding out his business partner was

[00:48:43] embezzling from the company that they owned together he attacked his partner's office and discovered that he kind of liked being a costume villain and went on to just become a costume villain. During this attack he also discovered that his harness inadvertently gave him super strength.

[00:49:00] Over the years Vulture has generally been kind of the street-level criminal type of villain right he's he's doing robberies he's he's he's not really getting involved in big Thanos style plots or anything

[00:49:13] like that. He has trained protégés there's been second Vulture's and that sort of thing he's also been held in a zoo by Craven it's been hunted by Craven a few times he's lost his memory

[00:49:30] he got it back he did that a couple times he's had quite a sorted history but really just kind of that street-level villain type of thing. Vulture is also a founding member of the sinister six

[00:49:44] of the original cn6 were Vulture Electro Craven Mysterio Doc Ock and I am missing one person I realize as I say this out loud and I don't remember who it was but the cn6 are a perennial group

[00:50:01] of villains founded when Spider-Man beat Doc Ock three times in a row Doc Ock basically crap I keep getting beat I gotta get some buddies so that creation really really is pretty big

[00:50:15] in the Spider-Man comics the cn6 I think are one of the things that make the Spider-Man comics shine his villains are a big deal. Vulture is one of if not the absolute most consistent member of the cn6 sometimes 7 sometimes 12 he has been a member of nearly every iteration

[00:50:42] of the team I only could find like two or three iterations of the team where Vulture was not present so he is almost always part of the cn6 he's not usually the leader that's usually not his role he's

[00:50:56] one of the also and but yeah he is he's a big part of the cn6 which I think is one of the things that makes Spider-Man unique. And the missing name is San Man. Thank you, they sure.

[00:51:13] As of most recently the Vulture was hired by a company called Orcus which is an anti mutant hate group well there he helped hunt down mutants and used the techno organic virus to turn prisoners into hounds who would also help him hunt mutants. He eventually was freed from

[00:51:37] the technorganic virus by night crawler and now is on the work of reforming. Moving on to Aunt May Aunt May was a fun wonder research I'm not gonna lie they they do some fun things with the Aunt

[00:51:50] May over the years but um so she is May Riley Aunt May grew up poor and first fell in love with a young near do well named Johnny Jerome who Uncle Ben Ben knew as no good in the typical kind of

[00:52:11] 80s comic go for the good boy type of story may moved on Uncle Ben after Jaro Johnny Jerome tried to rob her. They were Uncle Ben and Aunt May were on again off again but eventually they did get married

[00:52:27] they did try and start a family of their own but unfortunately we're unsuccessful after Peter's parents died. May and Ben took in Peter and raised him as their own and in fact they even the

[00:52:41] raising a Peter really strengthened the marriage between Aunt May and Uncle Ben. Eventually as we all know Uncle Ben is shot and killed and so May is forced to continue to raise Peter some highlights

[00:53:01] from May stories throughout the year she fell for an almost married doc doc. She's yeah and she didn't know Peter was Spider-Man at this time so like Peter couldn't be like no Aunt May

[00:53:13] I know who that guy is he's a dick don't do it um she joined the gray panthers which is a civil rights group for the elderly and started to date Nathan Lubninsky who would eventually be killed by

[00:53:31] the vulture. Pause for a second I am now been a research gray panthers that movie instead of black panthers. The rank who glor black panthers. She has died a number of times in the comics like

[00:53:50] Aunt May dying is pretty frequent sort of thing. Interestingly in the comics Aunt May first said that she knew Peter was Spider-Man in 2001 so that is a very very very recent in all things

[00:54:09] considered revelation within the comics when you're talking about you know a history that dates back 1962 all for what is that 40 years of of existence she did not know who Peter was. After finding out who Peter was she was shot in a hit ordered by the king pin

[00:54:37] and then in a move to save her Peter made a deal with Dr. I mean Mofisto to make Aunt May live and but forget who Peter was who Peter's secret identity was

[00:54:51] this also came at the cost of his marriage to MJ. After that she fell in love with J. Jonah J. Mason's dad and married him um interestingly Peter found out about this relationship by

[00:55:12] walking in on them. Yeah so as a most recently in the comics Aunt May so J. Jonah J. Mason's dad died due to her radical disease and Aunt May recently has been battling cancer in the comics

[00:55:35] she is a background character generally so like she is as far as when I say like recently right it's usually like she pops in something happens and then it moves on. Since it was fun to

[00:55:47] talk about alternate universes with Peter I figured I'd bring in a few of Aunt May's now I do want to say Aunt May is a frequent target of the What If comics so she has a lot of alternate

[00:55:59] universes and I'm only going to talk about four of them right now but she has so many so many arcs where they're like what if she had this heroes power what if she had that heroes power essentially

[00:56:12] that that's just kind of one of their common what if tropes um but in the universe where we have Peter Parker, Mayor Parker is a super junior genius anthropomorphic pig who creates an atomic

[00:56:27] powered hair dryer and then got irradiated and bit the spider Peter Parker to turn him into spider him. Drugs are amazing things on earth 31 23 Peter forgets his lunch at home

[00:56:49] and Aunt May has to rush it to him at the science demo where she gets bit by the spider and becomes a crime fighter known as spider maim um she got Bobby Drake's ice man powers

[00:57:04] she's gotten Wolverine's powers she also had Miss Marvel's powers in various what if comics she is known as Miss Mavil in the comics where she got Miss Marvel's powers and in what has to be my favorite alternate universe she became a herald of galactus

[00:57:27] for those who don't know that's the silver surfer typically she was known as the golden oldie in the universe. I thought you could say Tony Stark built some armor for her and then she was iron

[00:57:42] that'd be great to you. Aunt May is frequently used in like what if comics and that's our stuff to kind of make a little bit of a joky kind of situation but moving over to Ned who I

[00:58:01] thought was only introduced in this movie um you mentioned a little bit that he's an amalgam of various other characters his name is actually pulled from comics um and so I did

[00:58:13] want to give some some history on Ned leads in the comics because there's a chance maybe someday this stuff may come back so I like to I want to share it with our audience here um so amazing spider

[00:58:28] number 18 on August 1964 is when Ned was introduced Stanley Steve Dickco pairing. Ned is a field reporter at the Daily Bugle, Peter encounters and be friends Ned we're working there after Peter failed to keep up with his relationship with Betty Brand she started dating Ned that might come back

[00:58:50] after the first clone saga Ned married Betty and Peter was his best man and in fact MJ was the made up honor in that way well investigating the hobgoblin um for the Daily Bugle, Ned is

[00:59:07] brainwashed into becoming a second hobgoblin himself lacking the goblin serum so he doesn't have the super strength he just has the gadgets. As the hobgoblin Ned became an apprentice to bear in morto he reshaped reality at one point he killed Aunt May he was killed himself he was

[00:59:25] resurrected by way of cloning the clone died and most recently the original Ned was revealed as having been revived by way of the goblin serum and was returned as a full powered hobgoblin so he is now

[00:59:42] the actual hobgoblin and then moving over to MJ so MJ's introduction is a little bit disputed and I want to mention that so her first appearance where her face is not shown was in June of 1963 in amazing spider-man number 25 this was written by Stanley drawn by Steve Dickco

[01:00:04] now when I say it's disputed right she wouldn't appear again for another almost 20 issues in telemasing spider-man number 42 where we do see her full appearance this was written by Stanley again but this time drawn by John Remida Sr. John Remida Sr. typically takes the credit for

[01:00:29] the design of the character MJ because she you know we only saw like I think it was the back of her head or something in that amazing spider-man 25 now we we actually see the whole character

[01:00:46] so I should also mention like David mentioned Michelle Jones later Michelle Jones Watson played by Zen Day in this movie he's a reimagining of the MJ character so I'll talk a little bit about her comic book history but it should be noted that the character is intentionally different

[01:01:05] from the comic book versions and an intentionally a complete redo but MJ is born into a rough family after MJ's parents are separated she and her mother stayed with various relatives one of which her aunt Anna just happened to live in Queens, New York next to this really

[01:01:25] dorky kid at school on the night of Uncle Ben's more murder MJ being the very attentive human she is noticed that Peter ran into the house and spider-man crawled out the other side thus making her the very first person to know Peter's secret double identity

[01:01:46] Aunt May was kind of weirdly obsessed with getting the idea of getting Peter and MJ together constantly in the comics being like hey you remember that girl next door remember you remember that

[01:01:59] that hot redhead next work but check her out. Aunt May just trying to get Peter's big wet boing Peter and MJ really wouldn't meet until Peter was in college after the infamous death of

[01:02:14] Gwen Stacy arc Peter and MJ grew closer through their shared grief at the time MJ was dating Harry Osborne and when Harry became unstable due to the loss of his friend and his addiction to LSD

[01:02:28] Gwen Stacy and or due to the loss of his friend Gwen Stacy sorry I wrote that in a weird way but MJ and Harry would break up due to this instability. From there Peter and MJ started dating

[01:02:45] culminating in a super cute perposal that involves a box of cracker jacks and a real diamond ring good job Peter even though you're broke you got the the rock in there at first she said no but eventually she accepted the perposal they had a big wedding pretty

[01:03:04] famous comic book cover it's been parodied and recreated multiple times over it's a big heart that's got the like spider man webbing in it and Peter and MJ are standing there and I actually

[01:03:18] own a parody version of it from the Marvel zombies line where it's all the characters or zombies on that same cover it's pretty fun um she's had a pretty varied run after that wedding if we're

[01:03:34] being completely honest and a lot of this is thanks to Marvel not knowing where they wanted to go with spider man it should it should be noted here that like Peter Parker and his group of friends

[01:03:45] all kind of aged up for a very long time they were introduced in the 60s they they went through high school they went to college they started early careers that sort of thing and then Marvel

[01:03:59] was like but we liked having these kids and you know having kids getting married is a little bit weird so they had they had some struggles with knowing exactly what they wanted to do with these characters

[01:04:12] as I mentioned earlier Peter bargained with mafisto and rewrote history so instead of showing up to the wedding Peter missed the wedding there now is so Peter and MJ are broken up in

[01:04:26] in that version of reality she and Peter so MJ and Peter became on again off again for a while she and even dated Peter well his body was possessed by doc kind of gross there's some weird like

[01:04:41] aspect means where doc like photo shops and self and new memories of Peter with MJ she became Tony Stark's assistant for a while and even dawned the iron spider car armor as of most recently after a story arc that involved Peter and MJ getting stuck in an alternate

[01:05:07] universe MJ is super heroine under the moniker Jackpot thanks to powers from a bracelet that she brought back from that alternate universe there are several universes where MJ has spider powers

[01:05:26] that are pretty popular you know is actually she usually goes by the name of spider woman or spider girl in those universes um I do want to also know earth 65 which is home to spider Gwen it's very

[01:05:40] popular character in spider man stuff these days uh MJ so E.M.J.A.A.Y. Watson starts the band the Mary James with Gwen Stacy and can you bring um then over so moving over to flash Thompson flash

[01:06:01] Thompson introduced amazing fantasy number 15 Stanley Steve Dicko throughout high school Eugene flash Thompson was a daily tormentor of Peter Parker ironically flash was also a big fan of spider man they actually depict this pretty well in this movie uh eventually flash would grow up

[01:06:21] a little bit while attending Empire State University on a football scholarship and he would become part of Peter's kind of friend group at Empire State flash left college to join the U.S. Army he

[01:06:37] returned home was part of a completely abnormal amount of romantic affair slash revenge type stories I didn't even want to write them all down because there was so many so many and then he also was

[01:06:50] part of some really dark like alcoholism related stories where like green goblin forced him to drink alcohol to become a bad guy and yeah like he it gets really dark for flash for a while there

[01:07:09] eventually he did reinlist in the army and he would serve in Iraq and he would return up one metal of honor and down two legs who so basically sergeant Dan yeah look at it Dan

[01:07:21] we sent it and sorry to me to this point flash signed on with the U.S. government to bond with the venom symbiote he became agent venom aka a venom powered agent for the government so

[01:07:38] he was going out doing government work from there he went on several adventures he joined the secret Avengers the Thunderbolts even the Guardians of the Galaxy the venom symbiote was able to

[01:07:48] cleanse itself of evil and become truly heroic during this arc the FBI separated the venom from flash and he became and the venom symbiote itself became evil again in a moment of indecisiveness the venom symbiote was trying to decide between bonding with Eddie Brock it's original post

[01:08:14] and flash Gordon bonded with both and flash was a spill a vat of anti venom serum was spilled on flash and this created the new symbiote anti venom flash then died during a battle with red goblin flashes consciousness

[01:08:43] remained within these symbiote kind of hive mind and he was re-animated first as a giant symbiote dragon and then he found his own body and reanimated into that as of recently flash as anti venom which anti venom is basically venom but white so

[01:09:11] color color scheme inverted anti venom has been running around with the savage of Avengers and has been a key player in standing against carnages attacks on earth moving over to Liz so Liz Allen was introduced in amazing fantasy 15 slash amazing spider man number four so

[01:09:37] there is a character that very much looks like Liz in amazing fantasy 15 but never said anything never was named but in amazing spider man number four she is named so amazing

[01:09:49] spider man number four came out in June of 1963 the good news is both of those were in by Stanley and drawn by Steve Dicco so no no argument over who created Liz Allen here

[01:10:01] so no Liz tombs ever existed in the comics Liz tombs is a creation of the movie now the Liz that we get is very very very clearly based on Liz Allen from the comics in fact

[01:10:19] in a future name movie she'll actually appear with this name it's a blink and you'll miss it reference but we'll talk about it once we get there I should mention that the

[01:10:29] Vulture does have a daughter in the comics her name is Valeria she would have spows her father and become an agent of shield she's a pretty minor character in all honesty talking about Liz though Liz Allen was originally a high school friend of flash Thompson would join

[01:10:47] with flash in bullying Peter eventually she would actually develop a crush on Peter and complicate his love life she actually was one of the love triangle that caused problems the first time that Mary Jane was going to come into to Peter's life eventually Liz would actually

[01:11:06] Mary Harry Osborn you can get the feeling that spider in his amazing friends are little bit weird when it comes to these relationships everybody dates like a total of five people

[01:11:20] I won't get into the details but long story short Liz and Harry got divorced for a long while she was kind of that archetypical evil corporate executive type most notably during her career she

[01:11:37] led Allen chemicals to merge with Oz Corp and Horizon Labs to create Alchemax which is a pretty big kind of evil mega corp in the comics as of most recently Liz bonded with a hybrid of

[01:11:51] the carnage and anti venom symbiote called misery to fight off basically because these are two combined symbiote that are at odds they heal incredibly quickly they're actually really powerful and she used this symbiote to this new symbiote to fight off another amalgam symbiote

[01:12:20] that one of the bodyguards from one of her companies was using but she has chosen to keep this symbiote kind of under wraps she keeps it under control she's currently living out her life as normal

[01:12:35] trying to lead the company that she runs to be a force for good in the world so kind of evil through a lot of it but now she's reformed and making good choices I should mention over in the ultimate

[01:12:49] universe I just want to mention this because this is interesting I don't think this will ever play into the movies but it's fun to mention Liz is the daughter of blob and childhood friends with Peter and MJ she's also originally bigoted against mutants despite being one herself

[01:13:09] once her powers do manifest she basically has all the powers in fact even the name fire star which fires stars in the mainline MCU but she just different different people get it in the

[01:13:22] ultimate universe she eventually joined the x-man and Wolverine tried hitting on her at one point to which she replied by threatening to burn off the hair on his nipples okay she's into some weird stuff

[01:13:38] uh i do hope that this version of the of the character shows up at some point just because that just sounds super that maybe that's my hope for dead pool versus Wolverine is they pull

[01:13:51] this really obscure thing and they make it happen that'd be pretty wild let'd be pretty wild the others supposed to be a lot of camios they don't know the fire star will be one of them but

[01:14:06] person can dream oh that's fair that's fair well i know there was a lot of comic content listeners i hope you enjoyed that it i like i said i a lot of times there i do you know i i want the

[01:14:23] there's a lot of these things i think could come back in the movies and so you know now you know what's up so with that you said oh i can say do you think that the antma slash mj slash dot

[01:14:39] rock love find what come back oh my goodness do that that was so it that's what's so weird like in researching all this it's like there's there's like five people it's like Peter mj hairy

[01:14:56] Liz and Gwen who all have dated each other at some point or another and then when you throw in the weirdness of the fact that like dockock possessed Peter for a while and also dated mj

[01:15:14] it's it's weird it's weird i make them just i make them eskimosisters i think so mj mj and antma are canonically eskimosisters so yeah like i say 17,000 comics a lot to parse through i did not read them all

[01:15:35] i i definitely did some research on like summaries and that's sort of stuff um and so you know i and also for anybody who's really in depth spiderman fans please know that this is not meant

[01:15:48] to be comprehensive on any of these characters that is a entire podcast in and of itself that i am almost certain exists uh so i would definitely encourage if if you want to read more

[01:16:02] on these characters one read the comics go read a comic uh two there is tons of research out there marvel databases one of the ones that i use primarily it links back to the comics in really great ways

[01:16:16] um but yeah yeah david so with that being said should we take uh should we uh taking episode break here and then after the jump get into our movie sounds are good plan to be my man

[01:16:31] alright y'all well listen apart too where we actually get into the promised breakdown of a marvel movie that we watched in really sorter see then