Puny Pod | Phase 1 Episode 5 - Captain America: The First Avenger

[00:00:00] Welcome to Puny Pod, the podcast whose target is everywhere. Welcome to Puny Pod everyone! This is the podcast where we rewatch the MCU in release order and cover all things Marvel. I'm Ryan and my co-hosts could do this all day and might have to today is David.

[00:00:44] I think you're absolutely right. I'm gonna be here for a while, man. Dude, I... Maybe it's the reverse curse, right? I keep being like, oh, it's not gonna be a two hour episode. This is going to be a two hour episode.

[00:00:59] So maybe that works for us this time. But played at 1.25 and it's only like an hour and a half. It's fun. There you go, there you go. Yeah, this is a dense movie.

[00:01:11] There's not a lot of like big CGI fights and just I guess to put it up here at the top. The movie we are covering today is Captain America, the first Avenger. So it's Captain America's debut here in the MCU.

[00:01:30] So yeah, before we get into the episode too far, I do want to do the first of our plugs. So podcast grow best by word of mouth. Our biggest plug and we've been doing this for a couple of months now

[00:01:42] is really please just take some time, tell a friend about us. You know anybody who is into the MCU? Tell them about us if they... I've actually talked to a few people and they're like, oh, I've always meant to watch those movies.

[00:02:00] I plug our podcast to them too because I think it gives you that deeper appreciation without having to go deal with sweaty comic book nerds. At least we're at a distance. You can't smell us.

[00:02:15] But if anybody wants anything from us, we have some stickers, we have some business cards. If those would help you kind of tell people about us, shoot us an email, PewDiePie, you're so high from podcast.com. Just let us know what your address is.

[00:02:30] Send a self-adressed stamped envelope to no I'm just kidding. We will we'll pay the postage in all that. No ways. And we'll get you some cool stickers and maybe some of our

[00:02:43] little, we got a little business cards that have the QR code that goes straight to our link tree. So you can just kind of show people that. Yeah, we're providing feedback. That's the list. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, like I said this month we are covering Captain America,

[00:03:01] the first Avenger before we jump into that. This will be the last month I'm going to say this. If you tired of it, well, you only heard it once so you can't be. We aren't covering news in these

[00:03:13] episodes anymore. Last week at the time of recording two weeks ago at the time of release, we dropped our monthly bugle episode. That's where we will cover the news of the Marvel

[00:03:26] world. I think it was actually a really good episode. So if you haven't been listening to those monthly bugle episodes, last the April one phenomenal. Like not to brag on ourselves, but like

[00:03:38] really I was really thrilled getting off the call. I know like David you texted me like the second we got off the call and was like dude, that felt good. So definitely go back and give that one a

[00:03:51] listen if you haven't been listening to those monthly bugles. And we came up with the official name called the mirror and all. If you listen to the episode, you'll know the reference. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. So David, let's jump into the production details of this movie.

[00:04:10] So behind the scenes, so the title is Ryan mentioned Captain America, the first Avenger. Originally they started they being Marvel started dreaming of this movie back in 1997. And so they were negotiations produced with a group to produce the Captain America movie. But they were sued

[00:04:28] by Joe Simon, who was one of the creators of the Captain America. They soon over ownership of the copyrights to Captain America. The loss it was eventually settled in 2003 but that completely disrailed the development. And after that point in time, you know went through a number of iterations

[00:04:48] and won't get into all of the details. But they were originally aiming to produce this in the summer of 2008. So this would have been the second Marvel movie right after Iron Man. But again, it was put on a hold. Screenwriters guild strike. And eventually made 2008. They announced

[00:05:05] that the film, the film, quote, The First Avenger Captain America, which was the original working title, be released on May 6, 2011. It was originally released July 19, 2011. So it is released about two months after Thor. The name of the title was Captain America The

[00:05:29] First Avenger but I would note that the title, the alternate title, The First Avenger, was used in South Korea, Russia and Ukraine just because of nationalism concerns. This I would also note is the last time Russian Ukraine were kind of on the same view page. The same page.

[00:05:47] So it's too much after Thor. This is the fifth movie of phase one. It was directed by Joe Johnson. He was an art director for Return of the Jedi. I'm sorry, he was the art director for Return of

[00:05:58] the Jedi. He was also he wanted Academy Award for Best Visual Effects for Rages of Lost Ark and he directed Jurassic Park 3 and young Indian Agents Chronicles. And we'll see some elements of those

[00:06:10] in the movie in the will note. He was cited for his director or work on atober sky and rock tier and his special effects work. And was not necessarily the first choice though. John Favreau was originally going to direct but he wanted a superhero comedy adventure.

[00:06:28] And eventually it was handed Ironman and Louis Laterier was offered to direct Captain Hulk. He, he himself offered to direct Captain America after seeing some artwork but was turned down and ended up with the incredible Hulk. So big miss there. Screenplay, Steven McFeely and

[00:06:46] Christopher Marcus who have due screenplays for the Avengers movies they were brought on to they were not the first original screen screenwriting duo originally it was going to be David self-added wrote a prediction but Johnston wanted McFeely and Marcus. They had done chronicles

[00:07:06] in Aranya and they re-wrote the script to the point where they are the only ones they ended up a sole credit. The cast it is largely a brand new cast except for Samuel Jackson as Nick Ferry but

[00:07:20] we see Chris Evans as Steve Rogers Captain America. Hayley at well as Pey Carter Sebastian Stan is the role of James if you kind of can and Bucky Barnes, Tondley Jones as Colonel Chester Phillips Hugo Weaving as Johann Schmidt the Red Skull dominant Cooper as Howard Stark.

[00:07:39] We have Stanley Tucci as Dr. Abram Irskine and Toby Jones as Arman Zola those are the main actors and actresses that appear in the film. The as with all things Marvel, the casting went

[00:07:55] through a process. Evans didn't even have to audition for the role filmmakers asked him three times before finally accepting the part. He when interviewed he said he'd like the role he liked the character

[00:08:11] but was worried that if he took it he would you know he would he would he was worried about the sudden increase of fame how it would impact his private life and if he didn't take it like

[00:08:22] what a class must take that would have been career wise. So Robert Daniel Jr. convinced him to take the part and you know basically tell him hey this will give you the freedom to whatever you want

[00:08:31] to afterwards after that he had a meeting with director and with producers who finally convinced him to take the role but they were a ton of people so Sam Worthington will Smith or an early talks

[00:08:43] for the world captain America there were some big names, Ryan Fleet, Kellen Letz who is in Twilight who's a big name at the time Alexander Skarsgard who auditioned for Thor so and

[00:08:57] Chaining Tainum who also was considered with Thor and he was going to play Gambit in a 2016 Marvel move which never came to came to pass Sebastian Stan who appeared in the movie as Bucky auditioned Wyatt Russell. So no Kurt Russell who we will later see the movie.

[00:09:16] Wound up playing another Marvel role in the Falcon Winter Soldier series John Presinsky who would show up as read Richards and Dr. Strange Chad Michael Murray it's just a long

[00:09:30] day in Cook to the Jonas Brothers just why I'm sorry day in Cook like I have to imagine that's well for Ralph had his hands on it and he was trying to make a comedy action movie out of it like

[00:09:48] at that point in time yeah there were so many names that you know they they I can't imagine date but I can imagine them just saying hey if you are a white cis male who is six feet tall

[00:10:00] and you have appeared in a movie you will well move through this thing and I think each time I think each time they they go through my secret my own personal opinion they take all these

[00:10:15] auditions especially some of the bad ones and like hey we just we just go back and talk to Chris Evans and just twist his arm and get him to do so so eventually it was it but it was Chris Evans

[00:10:28] and I think we all agreed as a fantastic job and it's hard to envision ambia in that role Peggy Carter there were a lot of other names considered Alice Eve Jim it hard to turn Kiran Knightley Rosemann Pike at Alexid Davos Davilos we're all considered Emily Blunt was

[00:10:46] off for the role turned it down and she was also the first choice for Black Widow turned that down as well so runtime two hours four minutes the production budget was a hundred and forty million dollars

[00:10:59] opening weekend made sixty four I'm sorry 65 million domestic gross was a hundred and seventy seven million dollars and worldwide gross was three hundred seventy one million dollars so not a huge gross

[00:11:11] it was number seventeen worldwide gross behind the adventures of tin tin and ripe for xman first class Captain America ranks as the second lowest MCU movie in terms of world-ride gross just behind Black

[00:11:24] Widow at ahead of the incredible Hulk that's so wild and it is wild to think I just wild to think so the question is like why did it do this did not do fantastic financially and so there's a lot

[00:11:39] of questions as to why because if you're just looking at it you're like okay well the the number seems to be going down and then Hulk was a flop and quote unquote flop that's still made you know

[00:11:49] a couple hundred million dollars but you know and but it made about thirty percent less than thwarted international and so there were a lot of questions this to why one of the reasons was

[00:11:59] when Thor came out a couple months before there was little competition while Captain America opened a week after Harry Potter and the Death of the Hollows 2 and then right before plans to the

[00:12:10] and Smurfs which all did really big numbers and so had a lot of competition coming in when it did in June um there were also concerns I'm sorry July um there were also concerns around like

[00:12:25] nationalism and that it wouldn't do well outside the US because it's really American centric theme and you know flashback at the time there was a lot of anti-american sentiment internationally and then the two other things where just one is it's you mentioned earlier and it's not a

[00:12:42] big special effects heavy film it does it's and those tend to do pretty well internationally if you look at all the stuff that that killed at the box office it's all heavy CGI movies lot of

[00:12:54] sequels and so that in the fact that this was a World War II film for the most part you know it did well as far as World War II era films behind like saving private Ryan and Pearl Harbor but

[00:13:06] not if you think of it in the landscape of Marvel movies generally um the rot tomato score creekscape 80 audience skaters 75% so pretty well received the it is based on obviously the Captain America comics in 1939 uh Marvel comics is is created independently Joe Simon and

[00:13:33] Jack Kirby who were not the associate marvel the time that Joe Simon had the idea for the character and brought it to marvel pitched it as an independent contract I think in 1940 and then in 1941 Joe Simon teamed with artist Jack Kirby to create this patriotically theme superhero

[00:13:51] Captain America so a couple things to note this is what led to the copyright lawsuit which I mentioned earlier but it's also the timing in March 1941 fairly early into the war they created this Captain America superhero you know Joe Simon Jack Kirby to Jewish Americans from New York

[00:14:15] and this is early in the war I'm not even sure America's even in the war this might I think this is pre-prol harbor so the fact that they had the insights and idea to create this character

[00:14:26] to me is pretty it's pretty amazing um and then you know eventually they left the company but Captain America became one of the one of the big selling comic books for the duration of the war

[00:14:39] and so that's basically the the insights that we have for this movie there's a lot like I said there was a lot that got got it to where it was eventually produced and creating produced but it

[00:14:50] took a while to get there yeah yeah definitely a journey and you know I think because I was so well well you were looking there I was curious and so I was looking up even just domestic pro you know

[00:15:08] domestic success right and Captain America still was low because so kind of putting aside the idea of like internationally struggling because of the nationalism pieces and so looking at that I

[00:15:26] mean it it's still low which is is really interesting because I think a lot of people hold it up as a really good movie right which we'll talk about obviously when we get to the end we'll talk about our

[00:15:37] feelings on that but um I think it's it is really interesting yeah that was the year if you remember 2011 was the heavy like CGI slash sequel year so you yeah you had to hurry to pottery

[00:15:52] of the transformers you got fast five mission impossible like you know cars too and so all these films I mean to to be tenth I think Captain America was tenth that year in domestic that's still super impressive

[00:16:05] yeah yeah for sure well so so thinking about kind of its release we we set weight ourselves so well David what was your first viewing of this movie like so my I went to see it not opening

[00:16:24] weekend but the weekend after and really enjoyed it at the time but again on rewatch I think I picked up away more stuff I was excited you know to have two Marvel movies back to back same year

[00:16:39] what was that I know it was great how about you yeah I was very excited and this is the first in what will end up being a string of movies that I'll talk about this kind of experience with um so my

[00:16:55] local comic book shop um here at the time it was uh Griffin games and comics they're still around but uh and all like as we develop this story throughout several episodes leading here will

[00:17:11] we'll hear more about this but um they started doing showings and I our I started being aware of the showings that they were doing where they would essentially what what I found out the deal was is

[00:17:24] they would pay for a full theater at essentially student prices um because I'm in a college town so they'd pay the movie theater for a full one full showing at midnight of the like nerdy

[00:17:40] movies of the year and they'd pay student prices for all the tickets and then they would resell them not a significant markup um I know the the the guys who run that that shop or who ran that shop

[00:17:53] really closely they weren't making money on these this was more of like a outreach type of thing but it was really really fun atmosphere it was cool to be in with like true fans like

[00:18:05] when you go to midnight showing you're usually in with like fans but to be in a room with like people that you one are shopping next two day today because most of these people were in the comic

[00:18:17] bookshop I was basically living at the comic bookshop at the time um I was working nights so I had to work um I had to go to work at three o'clock in the afternoon and I would spend pretty

[00:18:33] much of the time from when I woke up at you know noon until three o'clock at the comic book shop and then I would go down to work um so you know the people who I'm literally spending most of my life

[00:18:44] around are who's sitting next to me in that theater and they would do like trivia preceding the movie and give away prizes and stuff like that it was it is one of my favorite movie going atmosphere

[00:18:57] as I've ever experienced and and something totally unique that I have yet to recapture um so the this developed I ended up changing stores they still did these showings but

[00:19:13] as of 2020 the showing stopped and they haven't picked back up so um but yeah it it's one of those really cool kind of unique experiences that I I just loved. It sounds awesome. Yeah it it was super

[00:19:29] super cool and we'll talk about it a little bit in the after credits scene I remember literally up Rory is cheering for that after credits scene. So um you mentioned being excited I too was

[00:19:45] excited I was nervous for this movie when it first came out um I think we'd seen a lot of superman movies struggle right and I and I closely tie Captain America with Superman similar

[00:20:01] character structures both are kind of the Boy Scout hero um waffle good you know that kind of thing and so I was I was concerned that we were going to get kind of a

[00:20:16] saccharine sweet story um that would turn me off to it because I don't I don't generally like those I like conflicted characters that's more interesting to me um and so I was concerned but I think this movie ultimately alleviated those concerns. Any other thoughts you had before

[00:20:38] watching it the first time? Now I think like you Captain America was never my favorite Marvel superhero growing up again I enjoyed reading them in the Avengers and like you were saying

[00:20:48] he was one of the balancing one of the lead characters if you were supposed to kind of curious to see how they would portray him on the screen and kind of how this movie fits in to what we now

[00:20:59] know it would be the larger MCU. Yeah that's fair so uh going back to this movie here this month what were you kind of thinking prior to going back to this movie? So going back to the movie

[00:21:16] I wanted to pay a little close to our attention to um two a few things to you know the origin story I think is really good but I wanted to see you know Captain America kind of think about him in his

[00:21:27] evolution his relationship with Peggy Carter see how that and think about that and kind of the future and there's a lot there are a ton of different pin and foreshadowing more so then I think any other

[00:21:42] Marvel movie today so I wanted to see if how many of those I could identify haven't seen everything else after that. How about two? That's fair that's fair and that's I think you know similar

[00:21:53] I I actually really enjoy this movie and so I was excited to get back to it um excited to watch it again I will say after having watched Thor in the context of our podcast here uh or not the

[00:22:12] or sorry uh the incredible Hulk um there was a lot of things from the incredible Hulk that then tied forward into Captain America there was you know stark industries pieces and and references

[00:22:26] to Dr. Rindstein which is Dr. Rindstein's um alter like his his suit and him thank you and so it was really cool to see um see some of those pins pay off from probably a lesser watched

[00:22:44] MCU movie um and in the context of our rewatch here that was just really front of mine just because we just watched it two months ago right so um really cool to see that um cool well let's get into our

[00:23:03] breakdown um so um the movie opens on uh in present day artic circle we we get to a snowy landscape uh there's kind of an exchange and researchers are uncovering the buried wreckage of a large aircraft uh well investigating the interior uh two of the researchers

[00:23:32] find a frozen round object with red white and blue circles um um the one the one really funny part here that I I did notice uh just before we go on to it's really what's actually interesting um

[00:23:50] I I loved the joke about the like it's just a weather balloon um because i'm a big like UFO ET type of fan so like writing off as the classic trope of writing it off as a weather balloon was

[00:24:05] money that was funny I the we see in the Hulk the minor quibble I have in the Hulk is uh I think in a deleted scene you you you could you could you could you if you squint

[00:24:18] you could barely see like Captain America in the artic circle in an alternate scene where Edward Norton has has taken himself away to be away from humanity if you well and it was unclear to me how you know

[00:24:31] how he got frozen within the interior of the plane and then you see him on the surface but that's a minor net yeah for sure for sure yeah I think I think it was very clear that we had moved

[00:24:44] away from that version of of events right we had moved away from that that now cut scene of of uh banner trying to uh eatable it but that is that is the comic though that is that in the comic

[00:24:59] he has found um you know just below the surface and and revived which I liked that they you know not to get ahead too much but I really really do like how they really um tie things to the comic

[00:25:13] really well yeah for sure for sure um so cutting back to Tom'sburg Norway in March 1942 which it that sounds familiar it's the same Norwegian village that we just saw in Thor where uh the

[00:25:31] Joens are fighting the Asgardians um Hydra is invading a stone church for a mysterious cosmic artifact which we now know as the Tesseract Hydra is led by Johann Schmidt who pushes a casket open

[00:25:52] to uncover what he says is the Tesseract. This is the Tesseract is was the jewel of Odin's treasure room but it is not something uh which one berries and then smashes what ends up actually just being a glass.

[00:26:07] Cube the tower keeper who is played by uh the same actor who played Walter Frey and Game of Thrones as well as Philch from the Harry Potter series uh quickly caves when Schmidt threatens to kill the town

[00:26:23] um it opens up a kind of like puzzle version of uh Yig Jersyll and um pulls out the Tesseract he kills the tower keeper along with everyone else in the village. I'm beginning to think these

[00:26:44] Nazis are not good people for real and you know what I after spending so much time in the modern MCU where you know we have villains like Kilmonger who you can be very empathetic with or uh villains

[00:27:03] like Thanos as well right where you know they're they're they're fighting Eels to society um and they're very complex and it and it introduces a lot of thought having a one-dimensional Nazis or bad guys type of movie is kind of refreshing.

[00:27:26] Sure I would have now don't came here on what I've liked a more with uh a parrot and uh snint talking in and I'm just kidding uh reference to uh with lash and his his complaining about uh

[00:27:41] one-dimensional character but it's kind of true though like you know it you know there are not gonna be a lot spoiler there's not gonna be a lot of layers to the red skull just some people know

[00:27:51] things I liked about this scene so throughout this movie you're gonna say you're gonna have heavy Indiana Jones vibes from the director and in the beginning when Johan Schmidt talks about how eight

[00:28:02] of Hillary quote Diggs for I'm sorry Diggs for Trinkets in the desert um it's similar to what we see in in the inner Jones right yeah and that I think because of the ties to Indiana Jones I

[00:28:18] think that like Hitler digging in the desert might be a direct reference to Hitler looking for uh the lost art right looking for the arc of the covenant I think I think that's like a they

[00:28:32] felt like a direct tie to me at least yeah yeah and we'll get into a little bit about the you know the the um a lot of the the the interest in like the supernatural like a eighth sense like

[00:28:45] some of the stuff like that and the next uh the Nazi powers were really into like supernatural and they occult and things like that the other thing which I found interesting in this scene which

[00:28:54] I did not notice it on firstary watch but there's the wall art the which hide the tesseract shows the same world tree which thwart uh drew for Jane Foster in the last movie you watched and the

[00:29:06] other thing I noticed is if you look really closely it is when um uh Winni shoots uh the church keeper uh the blood only spatters on part of the skull of his pin which foreshadows his

[00:29:22] reveal as the red skull which I thought was a nice little minor touch yeah they did a lot of that they did a ton of like hey this guy is going to be the red skull and if you were a comic book reader

[00:29:35] you knew that right you you saw that blood splatter um in a few scenes there's like a there's a scene where he's being painted um and you see that they're using a lot of reds and so you kind of have

[00:29:49] this idea of like okay I see I see what's happening right um whereas if you were eat not a comic book reader you probably didn't pick up on a lot of that at the time which I think is really cool

[00:30:03] and something that a lot of movies of this era did you you saw like um in Xman you would you would get Wolverine making jokes about not wanting to wear yellow spandex yeah um and so I think it's kind

[00:30:17] of fun that there's these little tags yeah little nods tolding tolding well from here we fast forward a little bit it's 1943 we meet our protagonist Steve Rogers who is attempting once again to

[00:30:33] list for World War II military duty and he is rejected yet again even though he's steadfast in the desire to serve due to his frail physique and a very long list of health issues uh this screen

[00:30:48] capture summary shows quote summary of patient health issues asthma scarlet fever, rheumatic fever, epilepsy sinusitis chronic or fatigue cold type blood pressure palpitations of pounding the heart easy fatigability heart trouble nervous trouble of any sort like I've got a few

[00:31:05] those like with that mean I could not serve myself like but um but uh but he um he is he and we will later see why he really wants to serve but um so he goes to console himself he goes to the movie theater

[00:31:19] which at the time movies were showing updates from the war for each movie uh later on there would be comic the comics oftentimes for films there's some uh another audience member who is

[00:31:32] yelling for the start of the movie and this upset Steve Rogers and he tells him to have some respect and to shut up you know they take it outside Steve you know fights but you know he

[00:31:49] gets beaten up the guy persists and Steve utteres the famous line I can do this all day before his friend James Bucky Barnes saves him from this scene uh the last night for their shipping

[00:32:05] off so Bucky tells Steve to clean up Steve's ask why where we going Bucky says quote the future and in this scene we also got our first uh first time of Captain America using a shield um he he's

[00:32:20] while he's getting beaten up he kind of picks up a trash can lid and kind of holds it in the stereotype of Captain America away. It was fun I like that part that was uh I did on rewatch that was

[00:32:30] not something I'd seen originally I thought that was a cute little nod yeah we uh we well go to the world exposition of tomorrow the voice in the back and says welcome to the model marvel's

[00:32:42] Brazilian and the world of tomorrow at the expo we see Howard Stark demonstrating his a reversion technology on a floating car which works for a few moments then fails um and while at the expo

[00:32:59] you know Bucky has set up a double date uh Rogers sees a sign for enlistment and he attempts to enlist yet again and Bucky is puzzled and Bucky asks him why are you so keen to fight

[00:33:14] there's so many important jobs Steve says what am I going to do? Clip clicked scrap metal Bucky says why not and Steve says and the effort is a really important line they're men laying

[00:33:24] down their lives I've got no right to do any less than them that's what you don't understand this isn't about me and we get the very fur we get the very first insight into his character yeah I also

[00:33:38] like to see where he approaches and he you know people envision themselves and the military uniform and he is too short he kind of like cranes as neck up to kind of look into the mirror can't quite make it

[00:33:50] yeah we see uh we see Dr Abraham Earthskine played by Stanley Tucci he overhears Steve's conversation with Bucky about wanting to help him the war and after quizzing Steve about his intentions

[00:34:03] Abraham Earthskine says quote do you want to kill Nazis Steve Rogers says asks is this a test maybe says yes it is and I thought that was just a very fun scene ultimately Earthskine allows Rogers

[00:34:18] to enlist as a candidate of what is called project rebirth which is a super soldier experiment being conducted by the quote strategic scientific reserve which is under the supervision of Earthskine

[00:34:30] and Colonel Chester Phillips and Peggy Carter who we will see later in the movie yeah man I I have to say and I think I said this during the during Iron Man II I love the idea of these world's fair

[00:34:50] type expos it is something that is so I am like enamored with and I'm so sad that like I live at a time where they don't really happen anymore um they were so cool and just just like

[00:35:07] I don't know such a cool atmosphere I think and obviously this one again ties into Disney you know we we talked a lot about that in the in the Iron Man II episode where

[00:35:22] realistically that this is based on the the world's fair which Disney Walt Disney had a large hand in developing I think the what ultimately became the I believe foremost popular pavilion at the world's

[00:35:40] fair and uh what have been the 74 world's fair if I remember correctly no earlier than that way way earlier than that but anyway um Disney developed you know some of some rides that ended up

[00:35:55] at Disneyland but you know that aside these these kind of like futurist vibes you know the idea and actually the main show Jason on the main the main ears up show was talking a

[00:36:10] little bit about how that's I think why a lot of people like the idea of the 50s is there was just this like positive towards the future right this this positive outlook that like hey we're gonna

[00:36:25] use technology in really cool ways and and this movie carried that feeling really well yeah I would great I think and I think was 1964 world fair thank you yeah I enjoyed it as well like the world

[00:36:37] first all this stuff the the exposition of tomorrow I found to be like really well done the reversion technology I think is the same technology that Tony uses for his uh uh repulsors in Iron Man

[00:36:51] the uh the and the there was the other thing I noted in the exposition in the exhibition when you first walk in there's a mannequin in a red jumpsuit under a glass dome and that I think

[00:37:05] as you noted was a reference to the original human torch which is yeah first character written by Marvel what was then time to comics that now Marvel comics yeah I think it's really interesting um

[00:37:21] that was a human that was definitely the human torch and if you read the marquee it says uh Dr. Phineas Horton presents uh the synthetic man which is a and obviously an android as we now know

[00:37:35] and that the original human torch was a android um that came out that that was introduced in October of 1939 um what's kind of funny about that is the the human torch is also the first comic book character portrayed by Chris Evans now this is a different human torch

[00:38:04] Chris Evans played Johnny Storm who wouldn't be introduced until 1961 so about 30 years later 20 years later I guess my mat's a little bit off but um later on and actually in the comics there was some some bad blood between Horton and Johnny Storm when he picked up that

[00:38:24] mantle because Horton was like that's my dude I made him and then what's actually interesting too from the comics um for for people who are fully caught up on the MCU and I'm not gonna give

[00:38:37] any spoilers away too much but uh Phineas Horton when he created the synthetic man was working for Victor Timely um which if you are fully caught up on the MCU and after credits each and everything

[00:38:52] that name will sound a little familiar um interesting yeah yeah yeah I don't think we're gonna see Dr. Phineas Horton ever in like movie form I don't expect it you know the the human torch

[00:39:07] again for those who are caught up you're probably hearing Android and there's alarm bells going off in your head yes the that Android became that other Android you're thinking of in the comics um but uh

[00:39:22] but yeah the so so that storyline can't really be told in the MCU very well anymore right I'm yeah my only hope is that uh Dr. Phineas Horton has played eventually by Nicholas Cage but

[00:39:40] you're given a spoiler of the uh the super secret spoiler show uh yeah the the no so we got to talk about casting we'll move on to the scenes but the other thing I find interesting

[00:39:49] is you noted Chris Evans played the human torch in fantastic 425 and fantastic 4 rise the silver surfer 2007 those films are not uh kind of widely critically acclaimed and the major reason if I'm Chris Evans is to provide the you know to basically like flush those ideas out of everyone's

[00:40:11] head if you want to be like you want to be if you want your legacy to be Johnny Storm into mediocre fantastic 4 movies go for a man yeah yeah for sure and just a note on casting too

[00:40:26] someone who who was not recognizable at the time played a very small small part in this but I'm sure a lot of our fans cross over with Dr. Ho fans if you are a doctor who fan

[00:40:37] you may recognize Bucky's date as Clara who was the doctor's companions uh a little bit later on interesting did I know that head can't in the same person but um I know you so I mentioned a little bit about the like atmosphere of this and I just before

[00:41:00] I jump into because I know you had some interesting ideas about Dr. Stein but just before we jump into that one thing I do also want to mention is the the atmospheric work that they did in CGI

[00:41:14] in post processing and lighting this was really really good and and deserves a really strong call out and it's something that I think a lot of viewers aren't going to pick up on distinctly right

[00:41:27] you're not going to go hey this was lit really well or hey this this had a good feeling around it but they used a lot of soft lighting and they they had a lot of kinetic energy in the scenes there

[00:41:39] was like mono rails going overhead and things like that that really gave this like this really cool aesthetic and this really like kind of throwbacky feel um and even some of the backgrounds were

[00:41:52] kind of flat if you will like one of those places where that stood out to me the most was when he's going to the recruitment center at the fair that building looks flat looks kind of like a facade

[00:42:05] and I don't you know on one hand that could be shot a CGI but I think in context it looks really good and it fits the aesthetic of the time and of the the feeling that they're trying

[00:42:19] to convey with this kind of world's fair atmosphere um so just a shout out to to the guys who did the visual work on this I think you know well know this is not the incredible Hulk or

[00:42:34] our ironman movie where you have these big CGI fights you do have some good visual work that has been done that I think deserves deserve some credit for sure yeah well begin with

[00:42:53] with the director right because he was he was on the visual effects team at i.l.m. and he was very involved like visually is going to look very good the film does a very good job of that for sure

[00:43:06] and one of the reasons I think that the film stands up hold up very well the yeah the common I was going to make had to do with the fact that the earth's kind

[00:43:16] character even though a lot of I think parking back at the war there were a lot of scientists in there were in Germany prior to the war they were not

[00:43:27] well to the party and so defected to the United States and so earth's kind of fills that role here but there were other characters there were like varnarant brawn who was who worked with Walt Disney and Vizzi studios as a technical director you had Hein-Hier Hover,

[00:43:47] Hein-Hier Pralice for buching all of your name gentlemen who became chief scientist consultant Walt Disney so you know again Disney does not have a hand in it at this point in time but this is more endemic the fact that at the time there's plenty of scientists and others

[00:44:05] researchers et cetera that defected in order to kind of enable the allies in the war yeah yeah I think one distinct difference and we'll talk about this a little bit when we talk about earth science backstory and and this might be kind of a

[00:44:25] Let's make him less complicated is earth science like opposed the Nazis right like he was pressed into service which I think does vary a little bit from like varnarant brawn and some of those other scientists that

[00:44:44] the real life scientists that you know signed up for the party and some of those things so I think I think that and again that may be just making a simple a more simple character right like

[00:44:57] if you don't have to think about this guy as you know potentially Nazi sympathizer it makes it a lot easier just to tell a fun little pulpy superhero story sure for sure for a second there I

[00:45:10] thought for a second to hate spoiler alert for war war two and I'm saying I don't think I think that's that one we don't have to worry about spoiling but yeah I've got thought the character is really interesting you know he reminds me a little bit of

[00:45:26] you and send a little bit the you know from the Ironman film who's the character who helps to complete the transformation of the protagonist into their superhero persona love Stanley Tucci he said you know the same one take the rolls up quite a

[00:45:41] always wanted to do a German accent it was so much fun I'm a he's a he is a gem Stanley Tucci and at the end of the next scene that we talk about here he does this little like

[00:45:53] schnapps scene which absolutely gives me Stanley like it gives me the same vibes as Stanley Tucci's kind of current vibe where he's like this cocktail cooking like he's your he's your cocktail

[00:46:07] uncle he's the he's the cool uncle who tells you he teaches you how to make all the cocktails oh man I want a cocktail and I'm home so yeah speaking of that next scene looking on forward here we are at a secret military installation high in the alps

[00:46:26] um you'll haunch mitt brings a glowing cube to Aaron Zola his hydro weapon specialist the conduct experiments on the test erect the cubes power will enable schmitt and Zola to power an unstoppable army that will change the war and change the world

[00:46:49] from there we cut over to basic training we need to agent piggy Carter and see Steve and the other soldiers being trained by Colonel Chester Phillips the platoon are told that their candidates for a super soldier program Steve has like a little fun scene where they're running

[00:47:10] and he's tired he's out of breath and and the drill sergeant you know tells them hey if anybody can get this flag off this pole they get a ride back and it hasn't been captured in 17 years

[00:47:25] instead of you know doing the dumb soldier thing of trying to climb the pole Steve sees that this is just a a little pin pull away from the pole laying on its side and him picking it up so did that

[00:47:37] uh Colonel Phillips is convinced there is unconvinced by Erksign's claims that Rogers is the right person for the job when he brought a 90 pound asmatic onto my base I ran Ryan do it in the accent

[00:47:56] I I cannot do it let me see if I can get rough enough for a Tommy Lee Jones when you brought a 90 pound asmatic on my army base I let it slide I thought what the hell maybe he'd be useful

[00:48:08] to you like a durable never thought you'd pick him brother Colonel Phillips once once hogged because he's a soldier hey we might know how that turns out if you're caught up with the MCU but her sign says he's looking for qualities beyond the physical

[00:48:28] Phillips says you don't win you don't win worse with nice instructor you win worse with guts and then Phillips throws a grenade into the middle of group of recruits Rogers sacrifices himself

[00:48:44] and we see a bloody gory mess of explosion all over the screen and we cut to black and caught and rolled the credits now I'm just kidding I thought that was it was sad like

[00:48:59] there's so many points in this movie where like you could totally have just cut to black like I almost want to go through on our TikTok and just take this movie and just do the

[00:49:10] meme where it like cuts to black and you just play the uh arrest of development theme because yeah there's there's several of these moments where this could have taken a real big turn

[00:49:20] yeah one thing I'm point out here is that when you talk about the comics and you talk about like the main characters I do think they do a really really good job this is these scenes are out of the

[00:49:30] comics as well but the the Chester Philp's character was actually the one to recruit Rogers to project rebirth at the time not earth sky it makes more sense here for purposes of the story

[00:49:41] that you have the gruff tomley jones character who is you know whose vision of a vision of the candidate the ideal candidate for the super soldier is the ideal soldier the one

[00:49:52] right on right but we see here in this early scene where he pulls the pulls the pin the flag comes down and it's at that time the Peggy Carter who's also involved with the project rebirth notes his

[00:50:08] kind of his his his cutting his analytics his ability to kind of solve a problem if you well it brings you from tell you and not his broad and that I think plants the seed of oh this

[00:50:19] might actually be the ideal person yeah because ultimately with the super soldiers serum like you add the brawn right like the the serum is the brawn and and I think that's what

[00:50:33] the the smartest people in the room right the the Peggy Carter's the uh earth sions they they they see that right hey I'm bringing the brawn I got to get the brains I got to get the thing inside

[00:50:45] right and and earth sign mentions that actually I think when he's talking to Steve at some point he says you know the what the what the serum does is it amplifies what's already there what's already

[00:51:00] inside um and so instead of looking for somebody who's already at peak physical condition because what you know the delta there is gonna be pretty low right they're going to get a little bit

[00:51:13] tough for a little bit stronger but they're not you know the the the smarts they can't bring the smart that the super soldiers serum does not add the sparks for them right it occurs to me on rewatch

[00:51:25] that you had to convince three people that you were the ideal candidate right you had convince earth sky you had to convince agent Carter and you had to convince Phillips and so earth sky in

[00:51:37] earlier when he's talking about you know it's a tassin earth kind says yes and Steve Rogers wants I don't want to kill anyone I don't like bullies I don't care where they're from so understanding his

[00:51:47] motivation and what he talked about with Becky earlier that okay that you jumped you jumped the earth Peggy Carter he he you know through his use of intelligence not brown you know leaned

[00:52:00] her towards the direction perhaps choosing him and then his bravery when he he's the only one of the group that puts himself on the line I think for for for for for Phillips you know soldiers

[00:52:12] required bravery and he was the only one that demonstrated at that moment yep really really truly is and so so rewinding a little bit we were joking it was not an actual grenade it was a dummy grenade

[00:52:26] so he he laid on a dummy grenade and you know it showed the bravery there from there we see earth sign and and Steve Rogers meeting for for some shops at the night before the per seager

[00:52:49] Dr earth sign reveals that this is not the first time he's done the experiment as we alluded to earlier he was forced into working for the Nazis through some really cool expositions like I actually think

[00:53:04] these were some some really good like flashback expositions scenes and we find out that Yohan Schmidt underwent the went an imperfect in perfect version of the super soldier procedure and suffered negative side effects due to his ambition for power and obsession with becoming the superior man

[00:53:30] however he reassures Rogers that he was chosen because he is inherently good because he had been weak his whole life he would not lose respect for the strength he had gained or he would gain

[00:53:47] and he explained so so earth sign and I'm not going to do the the accent because I'm not getting disappointing he says yeah but there were other effects the serum was not ready but more important than man the serum amplifies everything that is inside so good becomes great

[00:54:07] bad becomes worse this is why you were chosen because the strong man who has known power his whole life may lose respect for that power but a weak man who knows the value of strength knows compassion

[00:54:21] this is the right here this is the this whole thing is like this is the key to Captain America right here this this particular scene right first guy and says to him you know and I will do

[00:54:36] the accent whatever happens to him you most promised one thing that you will stay who you are not a perfect I failed out of it you will stay who you are not a perfect soldier but a good man

[00:54:48] like me is basically like you know foretelling and bush casting that like you you will be you know remain who you are right remain who you are you were not you were not one in

[00:54:58] viewed with power because you were weak you were no you are not you know obsessed with it like say like Schmidt was right right right yeah and I know you know I think that that you know

[00:55:14] you're right that is the key to Captain America and that that will become a pretty common refrain when we start talking about Captain America and the super soldier serum right and

[00:55:30] especially later on in the MCU that that comes back that idea of like hey who you are inside get's amplified that will come back repeatedly mm-hmm now I know you mentioned in your research

[00:55:44] you found some information about some of the like cameos that ended up getting scrapped from some of these scenes here yeah they don't really like slot in in any one particular spot but in reading about the movie originally camp we're gonna have cameo appearances because this is said

[00:56:04] in World War II there was discussion around having the X-Men character Wolverine and Magneto present because Logan was a soldier and um and Magneto was an in internment camp they were obviously scrapped because they didn't have the rights issues with 20 centri fox there was also going to be

[00:56:25] cameo appearances for name or the submariner but that was also scrapped I'm not sure how you finding a more finding a more I don't know how that was I don't know how that would have

[00:56:37] worked in the plot but that I think that would have been kind of interesting to see and then the last one was Joe Simon who was Captain America's co-creator he was approached to have a

[00:56:46] cameo in the film Simon and Marvel made up presumably the large cash settlement helped as well but he declined any past away five months later yeah it's too bad yeah definitely a bummer but you

[00:57:02] know I think I think this movie did well without the heavy cameo appear uh the heavy cameo appearances and I think a pulpy movie like this with a lot of cameo's like that does run some

[00:57:16] pretty big risks so that had ultimately been included um you may push it from pulpy to silly and that that runs a pretty heavy risk at the end right I think yeah it's hard I mean we saw

[00:57:29] in Thor there were a couple nice nods to some of the the uh cre not the creators but like some of the the content creators if you will the behind Thor and it would have been kind of cool you know

[00:57:41] if for example they they did a um and maybe it was probably too heavy for the time to do like a termicamp scene like Joe Simon again to American uh man Joe's descent like might have been in

[00:57:53] the in termicamp along with say like Magneto that what would have been kind of a cool little thing but I figured that for for purposes of time and just also not wanting it to you know to be too

[00:58:06] heavy they'd do it so for sure so after a brief cutscene which we alluded to earlier where Schmidt is being painted with a lot of reds uh he's he's having a portrait done and we see a lot of

[00:58:21] reds on the palate um we're back in New York City Rogers is writing in a cab and pointing out all the places where he got beat up along the way um that's how you press the ladies right exactly

[00:58:38] it really really is uh and and and agent Carter says didn't ever occur to you to run away he says no you know that they just keep getting yeah right if you run away they just keep getting it

[00:58:53] um Steve Rogers tells Peggy that he's never seen it or he asks her what's a date I mean I mean an agent like you you're very beautiful like just a great little like stumbling scene

[00:59:11] over over his words and what is she says she said that you don't you don't talk to a lot of ladies or like this is the longest conversation I've had yeah yeah um and and

[00:59:27] agent Carter uh sorry Rogers kind of says he's been waiting for the right partner an agent Carter kind of gets this little smile like maybe that's me um which by the way I have to say

[00:59:40] because this scene is probably where it hit the strongest the like debuffification of of Chris Evans in this movie still holds up today like that CG to put him on a little wireframe skinny body

[00:59:55] in like still holds up yeah it does I would say I totally agree um we mentioned early it's on a huge CGI film but this is some of the worth some of the CGI budget went for sure

[01:00:05] yeah he says something like hasn't danced lock because women don't want to dance some of them I'd accidentally step on which is uh little self-deprecating but shows its humility shows his like he's a humble person right and that and yet another character trait really important

[01:00:19] for the proper for the correct uh super secret uh super secret super soldier candidate right yeah yeah it's definitely like that that amplifies everything inside right and I think that again back to that you had a good word there key for key of Captain America I think that's

[01:00:38] that is very uh pressing you um so it is the big day we we head into what looks like a curio shop just a little curio shop we give a little super secret password exchange

[01:00:58] which is drawn straight from the comics I was reading some of these comics I didn't get as far as I wanted to prior to recording but um I did get to see this the password is identical to

[01:01:09] the comics um basically nice weather we're having uh yeah always carry a numbrella and then kind of the the passing through passageways um now it's not an elevator at the end of the passageways it's like a hidden bookcase type of lab but that's pulled almost exactly

[01:01:29] from the comics and so is the ensuing scene um so we get into the lab doctor earth sign kernel fillups some random government big wigs and Howard Stark are all there uh Rogers is

[01:01:44] ready to get his treatment um he's placing a special chamber where he's gonna be injected and he's going to so so as soon as he's injected he's gonna see so he's gonna change and then he's gonna get Viterraze which fun naming I love that like old school naming

[01:02:03] tola um so he's gonna get Viterraze you know through some some 10 scenes he we crank the Viterraze up to 100 and then he emerges as the taller captain America and the the theme songs

[01:02:23] playing behind him he is absolutely yo he has BOOL PIX and after witnessing the success of this experiment though we do have an interloper friend Fred Clemson from aka or from the quote on

[01:02:41] quote state department who is Heinz Kruger grabs the last vial of the super soldier serum and shoots and kills doctor earthstyerksag Kruger escapes running through New York Steve Rogers chases him down barefoot we see Steve use this seems actually really cool because you know

[01:03:08] a like in the mechanical heroes we see them struggle with the controls of their suits right so we see captain America I'm sorry we see Ironman's troll with the like controls of the suits and

[01:03:22] that sort of thing in this I really liked the way that in this scene they presented like hey this dude used to be 90 pounds now he's up over 200 pounds and you know he flings himself through a

[01:03:35] dress shop window because he's not used to the weight he has more the speed he has and I think they did a really good job of portraying like this is still a gagging used to his new body

[01:03:47] so as he catches up to Kruger he uses a the cab door from the cab that Kruger had stolen as a shield which it just so happens to have a star in the middle of it Kruger taking their child

[01:04:08] hostage basically trying to catch him and that child can swim which is a good thing because Kruger throws him into the water by the way there's no way that water is so filthy that child can't

[01:04:24] die anyway that's very fair yeah so Kruger takes off from pier 13 in a in a submarine that harkens back to the bat the bats up it heads off Rogers catches up to him punches through the window

[01:04:46] pulls him pulls him back up onto land fights gives a little bit of a fight with Kruger but the the vile of super soldier serum is broken in the process the asset the would be assassin

[01:05:02] almost immediately you know kind of tells Steve Rogers hey you know we are we are Hydra you kill one two heads emerge in its place and he takes his left insisor two out which actually

[01:05:23] ends up being a sign I pill and we get a nice foamy hail Hydra weak sauce man just take your punishment um i'd like to go back to the to the the lab scene uh so Dr. Irskine who in the scene is

[01:05:45] giving me major gene wilde young franken sunfibes which I am there for but I have a couple small quibbles so we see Steve they say hey you got to take sure it off got to get her head off

[01:05:57] cool um they inject him uh with the super serum in major muscle groups but I guess that's just like chest and biceps like nothing in legs he skipped leg day nothing in like the back or the

[01:06:13] glutes or anything like that um and the other thing is the pants the so we have a Hulk like continuity kind of thing like should those not have grown as should we put it can you

[01:06:26] like should we put it in like a yoga pants should we put it in an athletic shorts yeah there are definitely very stretchy stretchy cacky is which uh I don't think that much starch would

[01:06:40] actually stretch that well yeah fine fine but you will can suspend disbelief it's a super hero movie but the two things two of the things I really kind of want to point out um one like I said

[01:06:51] Irskine in this scene he gives you off major uh Dr. Hoianson vibes which I really like that character and one of the reasons why we're like the Irskine character on rewatch and then one things we

[01:07:02] noted in the um in the scene agent Carter uh is just a badass she's a dead eye well it's on shoots yeah it's great she's awesome yeah agent Carter is great and and I should say you know

[01:07:16] we're not going to cover the agent Carter TV series here um and that's not for lack of wanting to we we both have actually discussed this maybe it was on I don't remember if it was on air or

[01:07:27] off air but both of us really want to watch it it just right now it has been decantanized all that ABC stuff has been decantanized so for the sake of trying to keep with the idea of what's

[01:07:38] canon in the MCU we are um skipping that series but it is cool to see agent Carter be such a badass yeah behind the scenes though the main reads and we're not going to watch as our wise will

[01:07:50] divorces but no my wife wants to watch it I mean let's go oh man maybe maybe that's what we do we look the the ladies cover those that's funny no the um but I I really like this the the um

[01:08:07] the origin story we we've only seen a couple origin stories two dates uh and sometimes origin stories are just our little bit of a drag you talked about with some matter man at Batman but I

[01:08:18] thought the Captain America origin story was fantastic very well done very um very in line with what we saw on the comic books it looks really great um you know and you know if you put aside the fact

[01:08:32] that we're just basically saying hey we're putting students on steroids if you put aside that moment that might have been to have realized not the is way way different but I really really

[01:08:41] did enjoy how they tied this together and then we will see the super secret soldier in the future yeah absolutely absolutely um the other note I had about the the lab scene that was kind of funny

[01:08:56] is doctor so so agent Carter rather um apparently Hayley at well when she walked up two Chris Evans for that scene where where right out he gets out of the chamber and he's big tough guy

[01:09:13] Hayley at well's like touching his his pecs was actually unscripted um it was actually her kind of reaction to just being up close to Chris Evans for the equal which is kind of fun yeah no it

[01:09:26] was legitimately a moment of of a unique unique actual reaction so we cut back to Austria we see a trio of Hitler commanders of Hitler's commanders are visiting Schmidt and Dr. Zola and inspecting the operations they tell him that the Nazi party no longer takes him and hydro

[01:09:48] seriously due to his obsession with magic in the occult quote Zaret's skull has been indulged long enough Schmidt shows them his energy weapons which have harnessed the power of the tesserac and brags

[01:10:00] quote I have harnessed the power of the gods and apparently also the sound effects of uh iron man's repulsors it's fine it's fine um you've got to figure something on a soundboard is like hey we're

[01:10:15] just gonna we need some more so we need a sound for this you know I think I got something from the last come movies ago we use great purpose it uh we see a map you know one of those kind of classic

[01:10:26] you know war maps with um dotted targets that are kind of laid out and one of the Nazis notices that Berlin has been targeted Schmidt uses his technology to quickly vaporize the three Nazi officers Schmidt announces that Hydra has disbanded from the Nazis and now is enemies with

[01:10:45] the world Zola offers up a weak Hail Hydra in response um and it was this weird moment at this point I was like wait our Captain America Reds call like on the same page fighting the Nazis

[01:10:57] it was kind of really kind of broke my brain for a second I just gotta keep pushing through okay I can't yeah I think that's one of those times where maybe it's not so true that the enemy of my enemies

[01:11:07] yeah exactly that might put it to the test yeah the enemy of my enemy is is some insane maniac who's been um whose brain has been destroyed by this serum and is really like a redscold freak

[01:11:23] we later cut so um but I really the really just general common here I thought they did um a really good job of incorporating actual elements of the war so like I said before the German

[01:11:35] scientist defectors Nazi preoccupation with the cult e-genics um I thought that was all I thought that was all really well done yeah I think it was really it was really well done and I mean

[01:11:48] I think this is one of the places right so so Captain America we kept his origin story the same as the comics he was in World War II he he became a super soldier for World War II and and that allowed a

[01:12:03] little bit more of that kind of like keeping the the historical context because these books as as was you know these books were coming out before America was even in the war and so they

[01:12:17] they include a lot of that historical context and the the filmmakers did a good job of maintaining that versus like looking at an Iron Man where Iron Man had some context within Vietnam

[01:12:33] in the comic books but because of changing his origin story to being an Afghanistan you lost some of that historical context and so it was really cool to see that they could maintain it and they

[01:12:46] they did they chose ultimately to you know not not put Captain America as a super soldier designed for I don't know uh Vietnam I guess uh because you'd still have to get him frozen and all that

[01:13:01] good stuff but it allowed you to kind of do a lot a lot more of that historical context and make this more of a period piece than just a super hero movie. Totally totally we uh we cut

[01:13:12] the Steve Rogers who is being studied by scientists in order to rediscover Earth Sky's formula Howard Stark who is quote modestly the best mechanical engineer in the country can't figure out

[01:13:24] the technology Steve so Steve at this point time he's eager to go to the front line I'm ready to go I'm ready to fight I'm ready to do my part but Philips want Rogers to remain basically as a

[01:13:35] lab rat and it was at this moment that I said why can't any of these scientists write anything down why can't the key priests are shown same things Howard Stark putting some of the design for

[01:13:46] the secret element in the 1974 World Out Expo map um I do get the part where you're worried about about um spies and you're not being compromised but I know you got to you got to have more

[01:13:59] right I'm in a cipher so I'm gonna put yeah put it in and it's you know put it in a zip drive right like put it behind a firewall or oh wait I guess we're not quite there yet um so instead of funny

[01:14:12] uh fighting on the front line uh senator brand offers Rogers the chance to tour the nation for the USO to promote war donations using his images the perfect soldier as a symbol for the public

[01:14:26] to rally behind so cue the heightened war war two patriotism so Rogers performs with USO in the scripted captain america show captain america becomes an overnight success they have comic

[01:14:39] books black or white movies um you know he is by all means kind of a uh celebrity but he's not a war hero and so when he is taken overseas to entertain the troops does not go super well the uh the the

[01:14:55] the t-sum they told him to get lost he is soon met by Carter confronts them you know and uh and you know basically uh those are the only two options lab rat or dancing monkey he asks

[01:15:09] which you know at this point in time like it's I thought this was kind of an interesting moment right um and then he tells him that there are men are unhappy because many men from their division

[01:15:19] in the the one of seven which is the one which is bucky's division having killed and so at that point time Steve realizes oh I've got to do something any runs to see filers. Rogers is told that many

[01:15:33] in barn jenets were lost in the fight against hydra philips calls Rogers quote a chorus girl who quote has to be somewhere in 30 minutes Rogers refused to believe that Barnes is dead and heads

[01:15:44] off to save him so he's just going to do the right thing so we see this is we start this is the very first point in time we start to see Captain America in action other than punching out Hitler 200

[01:15:55] times in a US show yeah and and going back just a moment to the the kind of week hail hydra that the airems all the head I was watching this with my wife for like my first the first review through

[01:16:08] and one of the questions she asked was like hey you know um in a few movies Zola will be back you know spoiler alert for the end of this review he doesn't die in this movie there's there's no

[01:16:19] point where we think he's dead um and so any and he'll be back in a few movies and he's super dedicated to the idea of hydra and I think something that they didn't do in this movie which it

[01:16:35] makes sense why they didn't do is is show kind of the infighting that happens in hydra so in the comics hydra there's there's the red school there's mademask there's eramsola there's there's several people fighting for the for the top of of hydra and so they're they're always kind

[01:16:58] of at each other's necks and frequently it become each others foils and so I think that that they tried to show a little bit of in this movie but I think it makes sense you know again that

[01:17:10] that simple one-dimensional pulpy world war two movie doesn't have a whole lot of room for the bad guys also are fighting the bad guys you know they already have an enemy in the Nazis which

[01:17:23] are other bad guys so so having them do the infighting thing doesn't make a whole lot of sense but I do think that that was maybe a missed opportunity or or something that they put enough in

[01:17:36] but not or they put enough into where it was mildly noticeable but not enough to where it was satisfying I would say right right and if this and if we've talked about before if Gioff Captain America which

[01:17:47] I also think would be a really good Disney plus series because you could like hand out doesn't take a lot of CGI you could you could in theory get into some of these nuances but in you know

[01:17:59] two armovies don't have the time but you that's a really interesting observation there you do get the sense that you know again not everyone was quote unquote rowing in the same

[01:18:10] direction if you will and he got some people like Urskind who fled the country could be like Zola to use the rowing metaphorists his ors are out of the water like I'm here I'm not super into it but you know

[01:18:20] I don't I mean I have the same amount of choices if you will for sure so Captain America he is on the move he steals one of the chorus line women's blue helmet with a white ace stamped on the front

[01:18:33] and flies behind enemy lines with the help of agent Carter Howard Stark they're having a conversation howard stark is hitting on agent Carter Steve nervously asked her quote do you

[01:18:45] find out I'm gonna pause for a second I don't even think he knows what that means he doesn't know he doesn't because in a couple of seeds we're going to get where Howard Stark is like yeah fondue

[01:18:54] it's just cheese and bread I'm pretty sure Steve thought we were thinking some Hanky Panky was about to happen in Lucerne yeah different effort and then and then so he then parachutes in while the

[01:19:07] other two return to safety Steve sneaks into the hydrificory freeze the captive soldiers who then start a riot using the hydra super weapons and at that point I'm while Rogers continues to search

[01:19:21] for Barnes I would point out that the shield that we see here uses the same one in the comic book so this almost triangular with these three peaked shields this was change in the comic books after a

[01:19:36] publisher of the comic book the shield had complained that Captain America was too similar to their character in the chain shield which I did not know before man you could do a whole you could do a

[01:19:46] whole show like a whole a whole podcast series on those early days lawsuits and ripoffs right Captain Marvel right so this is probably prevalent for anybody who's paid attention to pop culturally right you you have Shazam who was Captain Marvel and then you also have Marvel's

[01:20:09] Captain Marvel and so there's a lot of that and it's funny how it shapes our image today and you know I'm glad you mentioned the original shield because in the scene where he's performing for the

[01:20:21] USO you actually see people reading comic books and they are actually like reprints I got I hope their reprints and they didn't destroy a bunch of these old comics but they are reprints of Captain America comic books that have the famous famous famous cover of Captain America punching

[01:20:43] Hitler in the face I am curious I I almost need to go back and rewatch it rewatch that scene specifically of fourth time because on that cover that they reproduce is bucky which he's a child in the comics

[01:20:58] he's on that cover and so I'm curious if they left that in there or if they kind of stealthfully covered that up somehow that would yeah that's what I didn't really thought about that before

[01:21:10] but that's a weird weird moment of like wait how am I in this comic book is that me like weird on acronyms a little brainbreaker but for people just aside comment aside tangent for people they're interested in like the Marvel backstory especially like

[01:21:28] stuff early on I read a book called Marvel Comics Mental Story which is written by Shon Hao and really really good read it really it takes you up through you know timely comics up through

[01:21:42] MCU I think might have gotten to the point where they acquired Disney Aquarius it because the book was in 2012 but it's a fun read if you ever want to really kind of nerd out on some

[01:21:52] of the history stuff and don't sell yourself short either David so not everybody who's listening has listened to our episode zero which is the introduction aka legends David did a lot of research

[01:22:04] in that same vein and and shared a lot with us in that that our episode zero so definitely go back and give that one a listen to like a bar to play our own stuff here because that talks a lot

[01:22:23] about that those early heady days of Marvel for sure oh thanks man yeah it's a good there's a lot lot of interesting background as to how we got here we won't you know we might reference it in

[01:22:36] future episodes we talk about some of the early comic stuff but yeah give that one a listen for sure the scene continues we see Steve finally discovers Barnes and a separate room where he's

[01:22:46] being operated on a rescue sim and Steve has this funny line is I thought you were dead and buck is like I thought you were a smaller it's like he's like how long I would've been out man

[01:22:57] you've been working out my man yeah yeah I love I love that friendship we this is where we get probably some of the best Stephen bucky friendship moments is this movie and that comes through here

[01:23:07] totally the we see Schmidt sees on some sort of video display screen sees Rogers and the prisoners wreaking havoc in escaping and set the factory to self-destruct to cover their operations I will pause for a second say I love all the scenes where there are dials and things

[01:23:27] buttons to push and things to flip it's great just love that okay and so as the big building begins to detonate Schmidt confronts Rogers on a high catwalk where he tells Rogers that they've both

[01:23:42] taken the super-soulers super soldier serums say that three times fast and they fight a bit Schmidt removes his quote mask to reveal the his red skull like face and we see the red skull

[01:23:57] for the very first time Schmidt and Zola make their escape in separate vehicles red skull is in a plane and Zola gets the keys to the hydromobile you know don't put a scratch on this baby

[01:24:10] Rogers and Barnes head to the roof where they tried to escape but the factory bursts in the flames and they both died so no they don't both died they don't they do not they do not die

[01:24:23] I thought I thought one of the things was interesting and that didn't realize at first watch I published a mention earlier is that Hugo we've been his character's name Schmidt some have speculated that in the major epistology we've been his name but I mean that's

[01:24:39] speculated in the in the weaving weaving's name in the movie is Mr. Smith the English translation of Schmidt which I did not know but I wanted to pause you with a really big thing I want to talk about here

[01:24:51] is we see Bucky being he's on it he's on a lab table and fairly certain that he has been given the super secret soldier here serum here correct yeah I I hadn't thought about that but that would make that would make sense

[01:25:13] I don't I don't I don't know for certain but I do believe so because I think that also explains things which happened later on in the movie but we'll come back to that and it may well address it when we

[01:25:24] we get to it yeah yeah definitely listen to the secret spoiler show because I think we can get really in depth on that one there yeah the other the other thing I loved in this scene so I

[01:25:38] I don't have like a strong I'm not I'm not what you would call a world war two dad I'm not like the guy who's super into World War Two or anything like that and so Captain

[01:25:50] America comics especially the ones where they're about World War Two if never draw me and really strongly and neither have the howling commandos comics which kind of is what's born in

[01:26:02] the scene but one of the things I did like is in this scene we do get dumb dumb do again giving his pretty pretty much his trademark kind of shout which is oh

[01:26:18] um not quite Mario but you know close and so it was really fun just to see that included and and see his signature but we're had you know they they did a really good job of honoring

[01:26:34] the I think of honoring the howling commandos here yeah and as a side note I would um I don't have to remember the specular not but I would love howling commandos Disney Plus show that'd be super fun

[01:26:46] I know that they came back in in agents of shield and then again in um Captain Carter but I think that was only for like an episode at a time so definitely would be cool to see a more extended

[01:27:01] kind of sci-fi war drama type of thing going on um so as we said the howling commandos are born um so Captain or sorry Philips Colonel Philips declares Rogers killed an action before he suddenly Rogers and all the boys come back over the

[01:27:27] hill into camp senator brand is presenting a metal of honor to his friend Captain America who happens to be nowhere to be found um Rogers is recognized for his contributions and is directed by Philips to fight directly against Schmidt and Hydra Rogers in Lispucky

[01:27:52] Dumbdum Dugan game Jones Jim Marita who that that name might come back later um game James Montgomery falls worth and Jock Donnier as his personal team of howling commandos to take out the

[01:28:09] other known Hydra operations and the group is prepping for duty at a local pub agent Carter arrives looking very very good in a red dress and tells Steve that Howard Stark has made some

[01:28:24] equipment for Captain America which for and foreshadows I might even win all this is over go dancing Howard Stark is experimenting on a Hydra weapon before Rogers arrives and Rogers is presented with some equipment this includes the circular shield which is made of

[01:28:50] vibranium and which he tests out what I love yeah yeah that okay so just before he's presented with the stuff he's Steve shows up and he talks to his secretary he's like hey I'm here for Howard

[01:29:09] secretary happens to be another game of throne's tie into it is Marjorie Tyrell which is played by Natalie Dormer and she thanks Steve on behalf of all the women in America and Peggy sees this and Peggy gets angry and shoots at Steve while he's holding the shield

[01:29:33] which is another one of those points where like what are those bullets going in the wrong direction or getting just like Steve having a split second less reaction time would have been another

[01:29:47] you know grenade exploding gore everywhere type of scene in this movie so we miss we missed tragedy pretty pretty closely and yeah Steve would not have gotten defunded I'll just say that

[01:29:59] I like there's a lot there's a lot to like in these scenes so real so going back to the Senator Brantzine where he is you know kind of you know embellishing his own accomplishments by

[01:30:12] you know saying his buddy his friend his giving me a metal valor Stanley is as always always the case he has a cameo is military leader this is evidently the only cameo in a feature

[01:30:26] filmed for the MCU where he was not a regional creator he did not have anything to do with the creation of Captain America other than I think the shield as a throwing element in the

[01:30:38] we see later in the comics and then the other thing I like I do like the recruitment scene I'm a big sucker for any movie that's got like a recruitment scene or you know whether it's

[01:30:48] ocean level or whatever right appropriate that it's at a bar because that you're certainly gonna get me in if we're there yeah okay let's meet up with those meet up at the

[01:31:00] stark offices like as lame I don't do this but I also like heavy heavy Hogan's heroes vibe so like like they're pretty much have done like the character recasting for anyone who is seen the

[01:31:17] very popular well we're too comedy which I don't know how you pitch that at the time to TV executives but whatever and you know you have the reference like you said before to the to the

[01:31:28] date but I want to talk about what talk about the shield right so the comic book version so this version is just vibranium right right yep okay and the comic book version correct me if I'm wrong

[01:31:44] is vibranium and adamantium if I if I remember correct correct yeah so the adamantium which is the stuff which is in Wolverine's bottom claws and which are in other we see in other elements characters of Marvel so the vibranium helps it to absorb vibrations and then the

[01:32:02] adamantium makes it basically invincible right yeah yeah and talking about absorbing vibrations that's what always cracks me up when he throws it and it bounces around if it's absorbing all vibrations it's not going to bounce hey hey man let's go ruin that with your science fact

[01:32:25] um not with you I'm with you it's obviously in the comic books it you know maybe they don't they never explain it's one of those things where like unless you're an um actually type of nerd

[01:32:38] you're the equal yes it is impenetrable and the vibration thing just means that like uh I don't know uh bullets and lasers and stuff aren't going to make it their way through it. I that and I think

[01:32:53] that's probably good enough they could do they couldn't stake they couldn't make any reference to adamantium because that was the um it's part of the Wolverine mythos and that was at that point in

[01:33:04] time that was the 20th century rights issue so yeah my only my only other quibble with this scene when we see uh the Ryan and uh Rogers and the Helen Commandos are like sabotaging all these various

[01:33:19] hydroporations and Smith is super she made a super pissed like dumb dumb is fighting with a shotgun like I am not a weapons expert but my understanding is those things have like a couple shots

[01:33:32] in the new world yeah what yeah that that is fun and I mean it's so in with this character of just being this like he he he is that like tanky uh just always in your face type of uh soldiery guy

[01:33:52] so no he's great no again TV series be great yeah um we fast forward it is 1945 the team arrives they are basically going to uh uh to take a train and they're going to load

[01:34:07] train which is carrying the Zola so Rogers and Barnes and Jones ride very handy zipline that happens to already be installed it's fine uh Rogers and Bucky they all zip line in land safely never

[01:34:22] having practiced again this has been disbelief totally fine but in reality they would all die because they would miss time and entire yeah right I remember watching at the time like the

[01:34:32] did they were talking about like in your end up I think was it bugs on a camera with this bug on a windshield yeah yep two seconds or your bugs on a windshield yeah they seem to like you know

[01:34:42] I think everybody would be like loaded on that thing ready to go but they're just that's I rewatched it I rewatched it this morning and that was one of the goofy points

[01:34:51] they're all clipping their like zipline handle on as they go and I'm like why don't you just have five of those just clipped on you know you're you're sitting there you're listening with your niggabobox to figure out if you're in the right place just go ahead and clip

[01:35:06] on all your your your your speed right to go yeah so uh they arrive you know we see a cool fight scene Rogers and Bucky are fighting the soldiers on the train during which at that point time Barnes we see Barnes eventually you know the huge explosion

[01:35:26] Barnes flies out he's held on capricious form tribes to save him and he loses him he drops you know to down the chasm if you will later Jones locate Zul on the train they cap from and so

[01:35:41] from there we see Zola and Philip having a fun interrogation scene where uh Phil springs him a stake he was like what is what's in that he's like you know now

[01:35:56] if that was funny Zola tells him that you know and the end and Zola tells him that Schmitz targets are everywhere one point in time I think this was the scene where uh Tommy Jones says

[01:36:09] basically like we sent a transmission hope it wasn't intercepted knowing that it was probably intercepted and then we then cut to red skull he's given you know huge Raarash speech to thousands of hydrogen soldiers so we're we're building up to the to the crescendo battle between

[01:36:28] red skull in Captain America we cut to Rogers and he is grieving the loss of Bucky he's in a bar not sure I can't remember where the exact location was um Agent Carter arrives they chat he's unable to answer as an alcohol because he's you know

[01:36:46] his metabolism is such that he can't get drunk Steve is convinced by Agent Carter to use as a star as motivation to put an end to Hydra so we cut to a control center where they have

[01:37:01] determined where the Hydra stronghold is located Rogers plans on quote unquote showing up at the front door after discussing a few different alternatives in order to subsmitch from using the advanced weapons on Europe and then basically everywhere else so it's a I'd let

[01:37:20] really like this next scene where he is basically he arrives on a motorcycle right like he escaped some people or chasing him he's got some cool weaponry on the bike the bike is a direct throwback

[01:37:30] to the comic books that we see with shield clicked on the front it was we get we get a little bit of a tie I mean this is another place where it's very clear that somebody had some

[01:37:40] Lucasfilm experience because we get a Ville Helm scream in that that motorcycle chase if you're not familiar with the Ville Helm scream I'll edit it in right here but yeah it was a fun that's also

[01:37:54] a fun little Easter egg that I always loved to pick up in those movies yeah well Helm scream is just as fate is kind of canned scream that gets just dropped into movies originally you know originally

[01:38:05] again the soundboard dude or chick that did not have it like I was to reuse this whole thing over and over again in the absence of the clip he kept America destroys a tank as he enters the

[01:38:16] compound takes out around it doesn't soldiers before he is captured he's taken to the red skull who is impressed by Rogers arrogance he asks what makes you so special to which cat in America

[01:38:30] responds I'm just kid from Brooklyn for whatever reason this pisses off Schmidt and so he punches them repeatedly until he kept in America utters his famous line I could do this all love it love it

[01:38:46] right I love that that lines yep always always welcome when it shows up yeah no they they there's a few the marvel does a pretty good job I would say I'm positive like in this movie of really

[01:38:59] laying out things for the future both in terms of plot of characters and of little like pins and little things here and there they get used in future movies and this is one of the reasons why

[01:39:09] love this movie so much red skull is about to shoot Captain America oh no what's gonna happen before three helmet is zipline through the window again money paid by the zipline company

[01:39:23] causing red skull deflate more US troops arrive in a big battle in zoos you know you've got you know new technology old technology there is a funny there's a funny scene I like the one where

[01:39:37] we see Phillips you know cut off one head two more plan um and then he says well let's let's find two more heads just great we see Rogers diveed a bunch of hydrogens before he climbs aboard

[01:39:51] the balcony which is hydra's massive aircraft bomber flying machine at that takes off it's headed towards New York um we one of the things I did like about this scene is and again another not

[01:40:06] to Indian Jones this is the person the bad guy gets thrown into the planes propeller yep we see a big fight scene in zoos cap confronts red skull in a very what I've described as a very

[01:40:19] solid choreographed fight um I thought you know side note I think the Captain America's fight scenes that we will see in all the movies now spoiler alert are all very well done look very real

[01:40:31] you know right like use of the shield use of physical like it's all really well done yeah yeah they do they do a really good job of also like making them imperfect which I think is why they hold

[01:40:43] up right so the first time he throws the shield he has a hard time catching it in this movie the first I mentioned it in his first chase he's he's getting used to his body so he topples over

[01:40:53] and things like that I think that's something that they figured out how to do really well it doesn't require a lot of suspension of just belief other than hey you have a superhero but

[01:41:02] you know it doesn't require you to go how did he learn how to do all this you know crazy martial arts so quickly it it illustrates it very well yeah this movie is very grounded like it's it is set in a

[01:41:17] time or were too real you know real historical events if you will and so it is very kind of plausible you will you can easily get into the storyline you know you want to suspend disbelief let's

[01:41:28] get to the movie with the talking tree and the raccoon right like but here like it's all very kind of grounded if you will continue on during the fight the machine which contains the Deaths

[01:41:42] Rack this damage so Schmidt decides to physically handle the Tezarak which doesn't really go well it opens up some sort of what I've described as a wormhole in space which sucks him into it

[01:41:57] the cube then glowing falls to the floor and burns its way through the various metal plates until it gets it to exits the plane and falls into the ocean so again major in the

[01:42:13] inner Jones vibe where red skulls you know consumption at the hands of the Tezarak is how we see like the arc of the covenant melting the Nazis which I always enjoy saying yeah

[01:42:24] um so Rogers realizes that he because of the weaponry because of the the weapons that are on the plane he is concerned about landing the plane somewhere where there is a population he's worried

[01:42:40] they can't land the plane without the risk detonating it's weapons so it said he decides to crash it into the Arctic he has a very kind of touching interaction with Peggy Carter making this kind

[01:42:56] of sorrowful goodbye he you know he promises to take her dancing but he in his heart of hearts knows that's not gonna happen right so or at least he believes it's not gonna happen Peggy's

[01:43:08] quotes like next Saturday at the store club it'll clock on the dot don't be late um and Steve says you know I still don't know how to dance we'll have the band played something

[01:43:17] slow I don't want to step on it and then static and you can't hear anything more he success with the Valkyrie one piece before it sinks into the ice and then later on we see stark recovering

[01:43:30] the Tezarak from the ocean floor but is unable to find the Valkyrie or more importantly Rogers body yep and then from there um so we already saw kind of what happens after that right but very

[01:43:46] beginning of the movie we saw the Arctic Circle saw them uncovering Steve so now we've come full circle and first we see Steve wake up in what looks to be a for 1940's hospital room listening to a

[01:44:01] Dodgers game on the radio go Dodgers um and he realizes that the game being played is a recording of a game that he attended in May of 1941 he escapes the quote unquote hospital

[01:44:19] flees outside turns out to be present day time square where he's met by Nick Fury who tells him he's been quote unquote asleep for nearly 70 years uh stunned by this revelation

[01:44:32] the only thing Steve can do is say I had a date yeah such a great scene like this the whole from from the the scene with the red skull from the scene with the we see with agent Carter the

[01:44:46] interaction the conversations having with her to this low-bony wakes up and he was like what the hell is happening here um really really I think creates a couple things one it it concludes the end of

[01:45:00] this what I thought is a very good origin story movie right and then the other thing is and we're probably getting into the secret spoiler show later on this seems to be like the most

[01:45:13] genuine authentic relationship we we see between two love interests in the MCU that we see so far right like yeah right we've got um you know we've got uh Tony and woman of the week aka

[01:45:28] happens to be pepper for one of the week so yeah Tony and pepper you've got like the Hulk and uh lift Tyler not kidding sorry but no this like for this movie like I would say that

[01:45:42] definitely that's one of the things I most notice like this seems like there's an actual reason why these people care for each other we can kind of head into it like in terms of

[01:45:53] favorites scenes or MPPs what have you but what are your thoughts in these last on this last scene yeah I think um I would agree with you I want to speak to the relationship piece a little bit right

[01:46:06] you know I think I think the the closest we get is Thor and Jane Foster but realistically you know Thor is still a god and Jane Foster is still a human this was two humans and the

[01:46:21] relationship between two humans which I think developed into a really beautiful thing and you know not to spoil things too far down the line but it comes back later in the MCU and some really touching

[01:46:35] scenes and I think it's really good this this last scene here I did throw it into my review I am a Dodgers fan LA Dodgers fan primarily but you know it was cool to see the inclusion of

[01:46:52] baseball I know both of us are baseball guys so seeing baseball be the catalyst for why Steve knew he was in the wrong place it spoke to my heart so I loved seeing that that also that game also

[01:47:07] has kind of a fun little thing where it's got inside the park grand slam which at the time not as rare as as it was today because of differences in the way that the game was played but you know still

[01:47:21] kind of fun little unique game there would you have liked it as much before New York giants instead of Brooklyn Dodgers I would still love that it was baseball and there's something I will say slight tangent here something so romantic about listening to baseball on the

[01:47:41] radio like I don't mean like lovey-dovey romantic but just like something so nice about a summer afternoon and that's kind of what's depicted here granted he's in the hospital but um and that's not the venue

[01:47:55] I would choose but something so nice about like a summer afternoon listening to a baseball game is oh it's just chefs case yeah well you got to realize that you know 1940 is not I don't think that

[01:48:08] obviously the entertainment options are not as wide as they are now right so it's a lot of movie theaters it's a lot of radio um I believe that had TV at the time got it I'm not even I'm old enough

[01:48:20] to know when TV for like it's not like you've got like a ton it's not like you have Disney Plus back in 1941 and so yeah nerdy is am I looked up the box score and it's real things I thought

[01:48:32] that was kind of cool but I do think like I said I do think it is the the relationship is the most plausible of the four that we've seen so far like right and and we have to also remember this is

[01:48:47] built over period of a couple years right so he's fighting the Halloween commando we do not see again if there's a Disney plus you'd see it but like we don't see the kind of the growing relationship

[01:48:56] and caring um you know after this scene in which right I I I glossed over to in an earlier scene but you know when he is he he puts up you know his the compass with her photo and she sees it and

[01:49:09] she is kind of she realizes like how much that she means to him that he would keep the a photo of her in his like in his like basically what his his compass on the inside yeah basically yeah so

[01:49:24] really good really you know I would say that that was really well done on behalf of the on behalf of the screenwriter screenwriter and director and the actors absolutely absolutely

[01:49:35] so that brings us to the close of the movie um so moving over to our kind of after after action report here um like we like to do um I guess David for you what like the main takeaway of

[01:49:53] this movie the it's significance to the MCU what what do you think was the the core you know significance of this movie I think so a couple things but I think the main well to the main thing

[01:50:08] that I take away from is that the MCU has discovered I think they've in this film they've all meant not just discovered but they've kind of perfected the ability to tell a story without having

[01:50:19] to resolve absolutely everything right so so we we see red skull disappear we don't know what happens to them we see the tazirac disappear into the ocean we don't know what happens to it we see little

[01:50:32] pins here and there we see young Howard Stark um and it all we see older Howard Stark last one was and in this film they do a very good job of of telling a a a fully contained

[01:50:45] origin story which stands on its own but also laying the the the grounds the path work if you will for future MCU stuff and I thought they did that part I thought that was fantastic

[01:51:01] yeah and I think it's important to to mention for the listeners who you know maybe don't remember the time or or you know it's we live in a world now where that's every movie right every single

[01:51:15] movie that comes out is laying groundwork for a universe for a series that's what's making money but at the time in 2011 you had some of that there was definitely a sequel culture that was heavy

[01:51:28] but it wasn't what it is today where it's almost a given and so I think doing that in a you know way that the the movie is rewarding um well still maintaining the the air of mystery for the future

[01:51:48] was really well done and was something that wasn't being done heavily at the time and I think you know like I say thinking of today's culture where literally every single movie is doing that every

[01:51:59] single movie has an after credits scene every every movie has you know ties to to create the next sequel that wasn't being done at the time and so I think um you know it is it is really remarkable the

[01:52:12] way that they did it in this one. I would agree I would say that they have done a very at this point time they have they've laid the groundwork I don't know and we'll talk about what we do like the

[01:52:22] phase review I don't know that the necessarily had anything beyond this first phase of the MCU I mean they might have had like vague designs but I don't know that the necessary had it all like

[01:52:32] laid out and scripted out but this this movie again on rewatch stands up very well let me ask you this who is your who is your MVP of the movie? Yeah I would say MVP I I'm gonna go dumb dumb dogan mostly because I really enjoy the howling

[01:52:58] commandos I don't know what it is about them that clicks with me I think they're just fun and I think maybe it's the facial hair in me which listen to the super secret spoiler show I think that's

[01:53:11] about the only one we get to talk about but yeah I like dumb dumb dogan and I think his he was fun and and I think this movie overarchingly is fun and so he contributed strongly to that

[01:53:26] I think so I like I would have liked to have seen more of the howling commandos to be honest they could have they could have expanded that quite a bit but if I want you to when you rewatch

[01:53:37] the film next time which I know you're going to I want you to just because it went uncertain scenes when you watch them are when I'm rewatching a scene I'll met folks on a different character like

[01:53:48] so in the scene where Steve's being congratulated just look at focus on dogan like he looks completely disinterested and at one point I'm like did he had he not read the script script beforehand because he just he's almost looking around like what the hell are you all doing

[01:54:06] what's what's my line what am I supposed to be doing here but I do like I do like dogan I thought he's his was a good character I couldn't rank him as MVP because he just didn't get enough of them

[01:54:16] you know from my MVP you know you can't take the obvious ones because there could be certain other movies and you don't want to repeat the MVP over and over again I am going to go

[01:54:32] I thought about red skull for a minute but I penalized Hugo weaving for never appearing again and really disliking his time in MCU so you know he's an ingrate so I can't vote for him

[01:54:48] I'm gonna do I'm just saying the two chief Stanley Tucci is a joy and a delight and he is the doctor Jensen how he's in of this film for me we do not see him again but when I

[01:55:03] rewatched the film I was struck by his overall contributions and really enjoyed him the film that's fair yeah and I wanted I full disclosure I wanted to leave that door open for you

[01:55:18] because I think Erksign Erksign is is a high up there like MVP he's he's a really great character and I I think you know definitely worthy of that MVP status

[01:55:35] I might almost go if I if I'm if I'm really being honest like you can't I mean look it's you know Captain America is obviously the MVP but you can't pick Captain America he's got we got

[01:55:45] spoiler we have a few more Captain American movies to go through I'd actually like to make a Co-NVP argument for Agent Carter because she is she was the character she was a bad language in the film and she

[01:55:56] wasn't just as like kind of like you know love interest who is like you know crying emotional whatever like she recognizes his gifts early in the film she advocates for him in conversations with

[01:56:12] Phillips she is you know this this kind of a what I would say like you know putting aside Bucky I mean I'd say she's probably more of his like sidekick partner than Bucky is quite frankly

[01:56:28] in the movie and so for that reason I'm gonna make them come with you I'm gonna cheat so hey hey yeah and I I think I think she this is where she shows the best

[01:56:42] because again she'll she'll as we mentioned she has her own series um so she'll she'll be back but I think this was one of her better moments so um so yeah looking at our

[01:57:04] overall impression right so looking at this whole movie all in what was kind of your impression and then also include with that our our typical ranking so right now just so that

[01:57:19] everybody listening is aware how we have it going is uh so we'll talk about kind of the top third mid third bottom third of the MCU because there's about 30 movies so we'll talk about where it ranks in

[01:57:37] there will also talk about where it ranks with the movies we've watched so far so we have Iron Man 1 Iron Man 2 incredible Hulk Thor and then this movie so talk about your overall impression

[01:57:55] and then give us your ranking um as far as tears go I would put in the top tier the so my top one third I think this is my first movie in the top one third if I'm not mistaken and I would rank

[01:58:07] this as I think the best film in phase one wow wow we're going on we're going on record um all right I'm also saying this to put his stake in the ground so when we get to the phase review

[01:58:24] and we have a debate as to which is the best film from phase one we just have an argument inside just like yeah but I'm just both in Iron Man yeah Iron Man's really great man yeah

[01:58:35] cool with the propulsor thing yeah no I this is a really it's it is a it is a it is a I was said this it is a great origin story it looks beautiful um the characters the actors they all have

[01:58:49] play playing the roles do very good jobs there are no grown moments for me the red skull is although two-dimensional he's a very good villain on the bed arguably the best we've seen today

[01:59:01] and does it does a great job of of planting little kernels pins here and there throughout the movie yeah how about you I'm guess sure I'm guessing it's your number two it is my number two

[01:59:15] of the phase so far Iron Man still still holds that spot for me I will say I will project this in the top uh top tier the third I do think for me it may and this is not to say anything about

[01:59:38] the quality of the movie right I want to be very specific when I say this right I can probably name close to 10 movies better than this in the MCU okay um not off the top my head but I do think

[01:59:53] when all said and done I do think it's gonna be at the bottom of the top third um I think that's fair yeah again I don't you know I don't I don't think that's an easy call necessarily but

[02:00:13] you know looking projecting forward I do think that this this one and just like I said last month so or also I I love and I put it in the top third I think those two may be like 10 and a

[02:00:27] 9 and 10 yeah yeah 10 or 12 something like that but like in that kind of you know in in that category which I totally got yeah which is really which is really interesting given its performance right this this movie we talked about the box office and it did not perform well

[02:00:48] but clearly the fans like it because we are the fans all right so that about does it for our breakdown as always stick around after the credits for the after credits scene remember to check us

[02:01:05] out on all of your socials um we are on everything including TikTok if you can get to TikTok if you aren't in a place that you you're not allowed to go to TikTok anymore um we are on TikTok

[02:01:19] I am starting to put a little bit more clips out um if you find a clip super funny let me know like if you if you listen or are hearing a clip and you're like do two guys did a really great job

[02:01:31] on this part she does a quick message and just give me the timestamp just be like hey you guys did a great job at this time um because I'm looking for more ideas on how to get some more

[02:01:40] content out on TikTok so let us know about that um as we always mentioned we are also on discord the ears up discord the link is in the show notes every week or every month rather um our uh

[02:01:55] my my username on there is our RGH and we do have a marvel channel on there where we talk about marvel news um listen to all the other shows on the network they are all in for a really

[02:02:10] good time so give give them all a listen but other than that thank you all for listening this month join us again next month when we get into the culmination of the first phase of the MCU marvels the Avengers and as we always say puny pod will return.

[02:02:57] All right David so we are back we have a post credit scene I remember being in the series or in the theater as I mentioned for this post credit scene so I have some really strong memories of it.

[02:03:09] First we see that the Steve Rogers is getting back used to modern day um in a scene directed by Josh Weedon who directed the the Avengers we see that he's Steve Rogers is punching punching

[02:03:23] bags off of their their mounts um and Fury proposes a mission that has worldwide ramifications and then cut to a very very early 2000s trailer complete with trailer voice guide um and all

[02:03:48] of that little mini teaser trailer of what we are about to see and got uproarious applause from the viewing I watched of the Avengers. Yeah I I lost my explitive deleted when I saw that little

[02:04:08] mini trailer I could have done without the voice they they've learned not to say anything just put music over it. Don't screw it up with the voice over. Yeah it's summer yeah in a world but no the

[02:04:22] we see as I mentioned earlier in the collection outs we see Nicholas Cage who is the only returning character from war uh spoiler ease in this movie at the post credit scene you know approaching Steve

[02:04:36] Rogers he is you know we've seen him now approach other characters for the Avengers initiative which we will see in the very next movie. Hey hey David I had did you mean to say Nick Nick Cage?

[02:04:47] Okay because you very much did. I said I'm I'm still wishing into existence one of three things. Nick Cage in this film should be Nick Fury or Robert Danny Jr as his character from Robert Thunder

[02:05:04] as Nick Cage. Give me either of these things come on and like just had a birthday why can't I have nice things. No as Nicholas Fury Nick Fury not Nicholas Cage so um but thank you for catching me there

[02:05:22] but yeah I it is it is an underwhelming post credit scene but that's because you have the mini trailer. Yeah yeah yeah definitely it was and this starts so I do know the so our after credit scenes

[02:05:40] this section of our podcast is probably going to get shorter for the next uh it will be after a couple movies they do start to take some of the um out of those after credit scenes um here as we go.

[02:05:56] Yeah so I was super I for it yeah super I'm super I for the next movie as well. I am too I am too so as we said make sure you join us next month for our review of the Avengers also join us next month

[02:06:09] for our monthly bugle um we may be I don't know I haven't even talked to David about this yet I will actually both of us will have uh parks like Disney parks visits that include Avengers

[02:06:25] campus prior to our next monthly bugle so maybe we'll get a trip report or something out of it I don't know well uh still kicking around some ideas so yeah and we might have a movie review.

[02:06:40] Oh yeah yeah we should have we should have in the monthly bugle if you are into if you are caught up on the MCU and you're listening to the monthly bugle we do try and review like what's out and so we should

[02:06:54] have fire next monthly bugle recording we should have the um Guardians of the Galaxy 3 should be out and we I think both will see it we'll see how it all goes so you may get a little bit of a uh

[02:07:11] a modern movie review there so but yeah other than that guys thank you again for listening we so so so appreciate it and yeah I hope everybody has a great month oh

[02:07:24] one last thing I meant to say this during the episode I almost forgot it this episode drops on the week before free comic book day so this episode you are listening to this episode if you're

[02:07:37] listening to it fresh you're listening to it on May 2nd. May 6th is free comic book day across the nation it is the first Saturday and May every single year it is a really cool way to get into comics

[02:07:53] so I just want to put a plug out there before we we wrap up here go to your friendly local comic book shop support those guys um free comic book day is their black Friday it is the day that comic

[02:08:06] book shops go into the into the black so go go support your friendly local comic book shop go pick up some free comics get some kids into comics right there there's uh reading levels all across

[02:08:20] this spectrum so get into that um my just to give a quick plug for my local comic book shop that I go to now it's Olympus games and comics in Shayan Wyoming so if you are in that area go go see them

[02:08:35] if you know otherwise yeah definitely go go out to your local shop that they are so so important to keep in this community going oh yeah other than that take it easy all