Puny Pod | Monthly Bugle November '23

[00:00:00] Welcome to Puny Pod's Monthly Bugle for November 23, my name is Ryan and my co-host as always is David David, how excited are you? To be retiring one of your repeated segments on the monthly bugle this month. I'm a little bit sad.

[00:00:20] I was hoping that it would get into syndication and I would get some fat fat dollars out of it. But we are talking of course about what is going on in the world of flavor unions.

[00:00:34] So, as we've talked about, we talked about like four or five, six months I think. Yeah. Originally, as we talked about for the writer's guild of America and the screen actors guild, American Federation of TV and radio artists or SAG after we're on strike,

[00:00:58] the WGA and the Alliance of Motion Pictures and Television Producers AMPTP. They need a better acronym. A grade two or three agreement which left SAG after on strike and as a result of these strikes, which I think began in May, at one point on their concurrent,

[00:01:21] has basically led a bunch of delays which we'll talk about in halted US production of films. So update the SAG after negotiators approved an agreement this week. We are recording this on the 11th of November and I think it was Wednesday or Thursday that they approved

[00:01:38] and agreement that ended the 118 day acto strike which is the longest ever. And the Union's Negotiant Committee approved the deal on unanimous vote and it was approved yesterday Friday by the National Board, by 86% and the vote it's going to go to the actual

[00:01:56] guild itself and it's thought to be just it's going to be passed and we will have an agreement. And the deal includes minimum wages and creases of 7% which is a little bit more than the directors and the writers got streaming participation bonuses, AI protections and increases

[00:02:13] and pension and health contributions. And so the contract is worth it said to be worth by the United Value to more than a billion dollars. Both sides feel like that they conceded something

[00:02:23] which means usually means you've got struck off fair deal and hopefully this would be kind of quickly ratified and get the actors back to work so they could start making some more content

[00:02:36] and promoting a bunch of shows. So good news we'll probably pick this topic back up in three years but hopefully not but I'm just going to save on my notes and cut and pace because I am lazy.

[00:02:52] So no but couldn't there's overall glad to see it. I think it especially impacted really impacted things in the Marvel sides. I'm really happy that they've resolved the strikes for now. Yeah definitely glad to see it. I know like Bree Larson was already posting

[00:03:09] like she was scrambling to do Marvel's promotion because this agreement happened the day before the Marvel started premiering so she was scrambling to get like Instagram posts and stuff up and

[00:03:25] we'll talk a little bit about how this impacts the MCU here in a little bit but you know glad to see you know I think coming to an agreement with AI protections and starting to put streaming

[00:03:40] conversations in the collective bargaining agreements is so important because that in three years that will be the difference right like those those two things the fact that they are starting with them now is going to impact this negotiation in three years when that's what we're doing right like

[00:04:01] extras are all going to be AI you know we're gonna have we're going to be in a reality where streaming is the only version of media that exists right and maybe that's not in three years maybe

[00:04:17] that's you know down the road when they have to make the next agreement after that but it opens up the table in a lot of ways. Right and the fact that they didn't kick the can down the road the

[00:04:30] fact that they've broached the issues I mean let's be honest in three years one of these sides might be way out of whack they they were just guesstimating what streamer residual bonuses would

[00:04:42] look like and you might look at it three years from now and say you know what we the uni got no extra money out of it or the motion picture studios they might feel like we way overpaid I don't think

[00:04:55] that'll be the case but you know at least if nothing else they they tried to come up with some sort of metric on these things to try to come up with some protections for AI they will you know they'll

[00:05:05] see after three years of practice like oh this doesn't work for you they're one of us or this doesn't work for us they'll be back to the table to sort of solve that problem but at least they

[00:05:13] broached it which is good absolutely well we jumped right into our first story there but one quick note we will be in this episode talking about current content up to what we have both watch

[00:05:30] which does mean we will spoil all of Loki because both of us have finished Loki but the marbles I will only give a spoiler for your review so I will place that after our after our spoiler jump

[00:05:46] but if you started listening and you're like oh I haven't finished Loki right now is the time to stop listening jump to the time mark that is in the notes and get out to the the time after Loki or alternatively stop the episode delete it

[00:06:09] downloaded again started again so we had extra bumps there you go stop it delete it watch Loki downloaded again and listen to it episode by episode so every time we say we're going to move on to a new

[00:06:24] episode stop it delete it go watch that up now yes all right so yeah let's let's talk about some current content this is one of the things I really enjoy about this particular show on our on our feed

[00:06:38] because realistically we're not gonna come back to these for another five years the marbles right now if our release schedule stays the same the marbles will be on our sixth pot of nursery

[00:06:55] all the way out at the third of January in 2028 so to give you an idea of how long until we're on this part of the MCU in the main show if we stick with our release schedule you got five years

[00:07:11] till we wrap back around to this and hard and I think hub crawl be at the 40th which is really exciting all right so we finished so last time we talked we got through Loki episodes one and two of season two

[00:07:30] so we got the next one that I think actually came out the night we were recording maybe if I remember right was the world's fair episode which was episode three I thought that this

[00:07:42] was really excellent really really fun it wrapped us back around to the after credit scene with Victor Timely which was from Antman and Quantamania plus you got to see the world's fair and the

[00:08:01] was the Chicago World's Fair with the White City and you know is it HHomes was the murder during that during the thing that's right yeah and it was just I love world's fair stuff we talked about that

[00:08:16] during Iron Man 2 but I the world's fair is one of those subjects that you included in anything and it immediately sucks me in yeah we get so this scene everyone's chasing timely we see

[00:08:36] we do get to see the creepy mismines giant mismines yes and that's the moment to human body don't know to you for what um and they oh that's right this is the weird love triangle between the AI and

[00:08:54] Victor Timely and Quantamania and oh yeah that was weird man you know it's okay as I always say it's okay love your AI creation just don't love your AI creation um they so Renseir Loki Mobius Sylvia Rive Sylvia games control they see Timely's fair

[00:09:16] Sylvia loves Loki to take him back to the TVA sends Renseir to the city and I'll at the end of time with mismines being brought along and they see he who remains decaying corpse yeah yeah that was a

[00:09:30] cool little scene there and mismines she knows a secret about Renseir and that's where we end up the episode yeah that one was really good I enjoyed it it was a kind of fun pulpy with with a good amount

[00:09:44] of also building like you got to see Sylvia kind of her assumptions challenged of like what she was doing like her her whole purpose of like I need to kill all the king variants and all that stuff

[00:09:58] really she realized that that's the antithesis to why she was doing it right she wanted people to have free will and if she was killing all these people she was just doing the same thing the TVA

[00:10:10] was doing yep pretty much yep just pruning one at its time versus pruning large branches right yeah so I was episode three very very excellent I think there was fair remember if there was any like

[00:10:26] really funny Easter eggs in episode three that that stuck out to me nothing nothing overly massive that I can remember I will say in this episode the first I'd say the first half of the series

[00:10:41] first three episode especially like to really understand we're talking about like the loom and the branches and like you know the the time slipping really confusing it makes sense more sense once you

[00:10:57] get to the very end it will kind of talk about where we think we ended up knock on wood but first three I was like what the hell's going on yeah I agree I agree there was a lot of the if if you were like

[00:11:12] super locked in it was easy to get lost and and even then pretty easy to to kind of just lose the thread but um episode four David do you happen have a synopsis of four

[00:11:27] up because all I remember is literally the last thing um so episode four so picks up misminute reveals uh in the past that Renslayer had a much larger role than originally like she commanded

[00:11:43] the he who remains army he proposed that Renslayer lead the tva with him and that misminute's member reveals that he had her memories erased oh yeah yeah so tough beat for Renslayer there

[00:11:59] so at in it so we see the heroes the the the Loki and his allies are tempting to fix the the temporal loom which is reaching this catastrophic failure which it seems like it's been

[00:12:11] doing for like three or four episodes already but you're here and um and they're trying to use timely and obies throughput multiplier uh to fix it it reveals this is the paradox where I think

[00:12:28] this is the episode where we see timely and obie meet Tommy wrote the book which um obie read obie you know or was inspired by uh obie was inspired by timely timely read obies book and so it's

[00:12:44] just weird paradox if you will between the two and so it was fun kind of seeing those two actors kind of like riff on each other um Renslayer and mis minutes try to take over the tva they approached wolf

[00:12:56] and docks and her loyalists they create the little box for those that don't want to join wolf agrees but everyone else choose not to and they get crushed a death by mis minutes and if you

[00:13:06] see if you rewatch the scene where they're getting crushed in box mis minutes is so creepy like oh my god yeah she's sitting here grinning this box pe- like if yeah if you didn't watch it this box is like

[00:13:21] literally it's it's this hard light box that is literally just shrinking inside and you have this crowd of humans in there and you hear their bones like crunching like think the worst outcome of the trash compactor scene from um star wars didn't that that's what this is

[00:13:42] it's on my list I want to see it but i'm not oh yeah so there was that creepy scene you've got silvi and Loki encounter his times slipping self Loki Loki prunes his past self

[00:13:58] OB deactivates mis minutes and she's trying to give some sort of remember she's trying to give some sort of message we think to timelay but we're not quite sure because she kind of glitz it

[00:14:06] loses power and glitches out if you well um silvi in chant wolves and controlling him to print Renslayer timelays rescued and is able to restore access to the temporal loom but the looms increase temporal radiation spigetifies him before he can reach the throughput multiplier

[00:14:26] and the temporal loom explodes and the blast wave spreads towards the team in the tva and that's the last we see and there was that moment of like what did it just watch like what is going on here

[00:14:40] yeah my my jaw was on the the apps loop for here I was just like like just taking a bat like this was one of those moments and and there's been a few of them in the MCU right you think of

[00:14:55] the snap and well there's where the heroes didn't win heroes lost the timeline is destroyed like and it's kind of funny because in real-world time happened right after this was the uh the article

[00:15:11] came out in variety um about just how underwater the MCU is right now in the jump and the major problem and all those things so I remember you and I David were texting and I was like dude could

[00:15:24] imagine if they would have just used that as a reset like yeah that's that's your universe reset right there yeah now they didn't we'll talk about the last two episodes but um but yeah that that

[00:15:37] was a very good episode and it had a lot it the stakes felt right it it was it was very good yeah I remember I remember watching at the time and it reminded me of the last season of breaking bad

[00:15:53] where they um I won't spoil breaking bad which has been out for awhile but um there's that they basically the the showbunners talk about writing themselves into a corner and like how do you get out of it

[00:16:05] and I was like I don't know how you get out of this like the the the the the the branch chainer it would be destroyed like what's gonna happen and so five picks up right where six

[00:16:18] let's off and there parts of five alike parts of five it in love but um so Loki survived the explosion everyone else has vanished and the TV headquarters picked it and um it's big out of five

[00:16:30] he escapes and he begins time slipping again but instead he goes and visits the various branch chain timelines where Mobius hunter B15 Casey and OBR in their original lives and um so Mobius is done

[00:16:49] B15 is the doctor Casey is Frank Morris the person who escaped from out of the house and OBR is Dr. AD Doug who's a who's a writer um I don't know I did I did like I just kind of

[00:17:06] find to see them in their different timelines yeah none of them recognize him at all and most are kind of suspicious um OBR seems to be the one most open to it because he was the science fixed

[00:17:21] writer who's placing himself books the books to our which is something it seems like you and I would do we wrote a book and we couldn't sell any large like you could it yeah leave it

[00:17:31] oh that's an idea I just need to burn CDs of this podcast there you go and so I did enjoy that part um I felt like you know eight up a bit of time but it's fine

[00:17:47] we see the part that well we won't go for an afternoon and see my scene what am I doing here I'll shut up um so he's unable to control his time slipping OBR poses that Loki

[00:18:01] gather everyone together at and so all these people gather them all at the exposure back together so that they're quote collective temporal aura can send them back to the right place in time

[00:18:15] okay uh by sure when I'm on for the ride um Doug builds a temp pad using a TV a handbook the Loki kept Loki succeeds in gathering everyone's to Doug's workshop except Sylvie who is retained

[00:18:28] memories remember she was in the record shop and the record shop but I got to get a five right so we see later Sylvie and Loki in kind of an underwhelming scene where they're in a bar

[00:18:43] they're talking about what is she really wanting he wants his friends that's basically you know Pete that's his basic motivation if you well and he fears being alone so as everything in this timeline begins to forget a five she goes to help Loki but Doug's workshops beguidifies as

[00:18:59] do Frank Doug Don Willis and Sylvie and he finally controls his time slipping by focusing on a person and then he can quote rewrite the story and so he slips right before the explosion by focusing on

[00:19:13] OBR and that's where he kind of ends up if you will yeah yeah I really like I liked five a good amount it definitely felt like five was was like it's slipping away from Loki right it felt like he kept

[00:19:34] trying to grasp at succeeding and he just like kept dropping it right he couldn't he couldn't hold on to success and and I think that's why five was maybe a little bit more underwhelming is because

[00:19:50] it just reinforced to the end of four right it's like hey these heroes are going to lose there is no way for and that's really what it all ultimately establishes is there is no way for this to work

[00:20:02] you know as such right and we'll talk about the finale here in a second but you know there is no way for for Sylvie's plans to really succeed and to keep the timelines together

[00:20:20] it's like the Avengers and Game Oods right you know just like this is not this is doomed it's never going to happen this is impossible but so six picked up and I really like six quite

[00:20:38] a bit like five I felt like they're parts of the time where it's like this is just okay six I liked how he just kept going back in time like okay Victor you just got to move faster so he

[00:20:49] he goes back and he he to right for the explosion and he tries different alternative so he he slips back to the moment and tries to get time to run faster he

[00:21:04] slips back to the moment will when we see him cut to right for Sylvie is trying to kill he who remains and and this is I thought was some of the better parts of this series where you have this

[00:21:16] conversation between he who remains and Loki they're talking about the loom is a failsafe which is which protects the sacred timeline by deleting the branches along with the TBA and he tells he who remains to just Loki kills Sylvie to save the loom or

[00:21:38] which he rejects and after consulting, Loki and Sylvie different moments of time Loki replaces timely in approaching the loom Loki destroys the loom, mascoe vives the dying timelines and rearranges them into a tree like structure which looks like the

[00:21:55] tree tree which is how we'll get into and the TBA accepts the going branches and now tracks he remains various variants with Mobius reporting that one of the variants being stopped at Earth 616 adjacent realm right B15's now in the TV leaders, OBE reactivates now friend

[00:22:17] of this minutes rewrites the TBA handbook with timelays coauthor and at the very end we see Renslayer waken in the void we see aliaf and you know we see glorious purpose episode 6 Loki

[00:22:38] king of timelines right god of god of stories so yeah so so this I really want to focus on this part because I think this is the very end of this episode 6 is the obviously it's

[00:22:53] the big payoff you most of the time I think in these marvel properties especially the shows well I mean these shows like the penultimate episode is the banger and the last episode is kind

[00:23:05] like okay we're like kind of wrap up this it's the opposite so at the end of so so my understanding it correct me if i'm wrong on this stuff right at the end of the season 2 he's

[00:23:18] um wrestling with this decision to kill Sylvie and spare Hugh who remains in order to say the sacred timeline and in the end he destroys the sacred timeline to invalidate he who remains fail safe

[00:23:34] and so yeah he frees the multiverse but he also saved the dying branches by forming them into a tree which is the shape of you'd yourself right like and then he's stuck at the middle he has to

[00:23:47] have an active role in maintaining them yes yes the now the branches can all co-exist in the conjoined multiverse but he is under this new style tree of time in the center as you know and

[00:24:01] this is a callback to the tree the world's tree which which is in as guardian concept which each root or branch represents one of the nine realms so in Thor you remember him talking

[00:24:16] of him Thor talking defining you'd yourself to Jane Foster saying quote your world is one of the nine realms of the cosmos linked to each other by the branches of didra sell the world's tree

[00:24:26] and we later see this tree if you remember in Captain America first Avenger because it's a wall carving behind which the tezrak was kept until the red skull took it so ultimately at the end of the

[00:24:39] day Loki sacrificed what he wanted which was his friends you know or wanted to stay with his friends in order to save his friends and taking the place of he remains yeah so yeah and I it I think yeah

[00:25:01] the really interesting thing too that that we leave now is Loki's the the the god of stories there's a lot of characters that have some similar some similarity I've seen things online about is he becoming the be-onder is he becoming this character that character the watcher right yeah

[00:25:24] there's a lot of characters that that Marvel has used who kind of oversee the universe and I think what's interesting is is we are at a place in real world stories where Marvel is faced with

[00:25:41] some decisions and potentially some pretty major rewrites that are needed right some pretty major changes you know do we move forward with Jonathan majors is Kang and and you know I we we on this

[00:25:55] podcast have kind of stayed away from his his court battles because I don't I don't think that that's great to report on and it's it's challenging for people to listen but I think talking about

[00:26:08] the way it interacts with the MCU and and in all likelihood you know no matter how how everything comes out with his legal troubles he's still not a great dude he's got you know the court of public opinion

[00:26:21] if you will is against Jonathan majors and and the MCU is hinged on Kang right now right like that is a big part of it and they do now have a mechanic and I don't think they wrote it for this

[00:26:38] express purpose god that would be lazy writing if they did but they do it now have a mechanic of like they have a character who's sitting at the center of the timeline and could influence things right he

[00:26:50] could conceivably go oh you Jonathan major or oh Kang you look like this now you look like this or you know just shift things here and there which I think is a good mechanic a convenient mechanic for them

[00:27:07] to have right now well they didn't I don't they I'm certainly did not write this with the ending so again they have the reason I'll tell you about how the painting writing yourself into a corner being

[00:27:20] right yourself out they end up with this very cool ending which quits it only enough gives them some flexibility in terms of kind of rewriting things if you well I think it's possible that negative

[00:27:32] so at the time of writing it like Jonathan majors was not having any kind of legal problems or anything like that so they didn't write it to write them out of right the Jonathan majors Kang as a character

[00:27:43] is a central part that doesn't necessarily mean to your point the Jonathan majors will be Kang it could be rewritten it could be re-invision they could completely go into different direction if they really want to if you will we've certainly seen Marvel kind of scrap rewrite

[00:27:58] start over with different projects different stories different movies and so they could entirely like we're gonna reshift the Kang downesties you know but I think that they did end up at a pretty cool

[00:28:12] point to what you were saying is they could go back and rewrite different stories and I know I thought that I thought that Tom Hiddleston was fantastic he's prrrr yeah so like oh man

[00:28:29] the look in his face at the very end when he's sitting on the throenies basically prisoner of time at that point in time knowing that sacrifice he doesn't seem happy he always wanted to sit on a throne

[00:28:43] right it's this is just not the one I was I was bargaining for but I'm sure there's this feeling of like resolution like he seems to resolve to it like he's he has saved his friends he's kind of

[00:28:58] saved the timeline if you will but yeah I thought it was really good yeah and I do want to say for as much guff as we give the visuals of the MCU especially in phase four and phase five there's

[00:29:09] a lot of like CGI gaffs and you know just visual visual mishaps I think that that finale scene where Loki is grabbing the timelines and it develops into kind of this flowing cape of timelines behind him

[00:29:27] and then he twists it into the it was beautiful like it was a gorgeous scene to watch um also I just want to throw in here because I know one of our listeners is Eric and I think he would

[00:29:45] absolutely murder me if I forgot to mention this easer egg which is one that was trying to pull out from the world's fair episode in the world's fair episode they go to the Norway pavilion

[00:29:58] and it's Loki standing there with Mobius in front of the Norway pavilion and there's three statues uh there's a really funny interchange that it will in five years we'll really get into this but

[00:30:12] there there's a really funny exchange about you know Thor isn't that tall because the three statues are Thor Loki and then Baldur and there's a really funny line where Loki just goes yeah nobody's

[00:30:25] heard of Baldur which is kind of just funny because he's he's in the comics Baldur appears in Marvel comics but he's never appeared in the MCU so kind of funny that they uh use that

[00:30:37] and who's Baldur? Baldur is another god in Norse mythology I could not tell you which god he he is Thor's other brother from not mistaken. Ah okay so I know Eric could tell us uh he's Eric's dog

[00:30:53] Baldur's Eric's dog so. So yeah I think that any other thoughts on Loki before we move on? No I don't know I guess the question is if for slash when will see Loki ever again? It's I mean

[00:31:14] Tom Hiddles and they have to say have to bring him back but you could also just see you here in the center of time I don't know if he can leave his throne or not maybe gets in

[00:31:23] very maybe we'll see variants it pop up in different movies but also like vestiges yeah yeah yeah yeah he has a history of like sending you know holograms of himself out yeah yeah if you could do yeah that'd be cool

[00:31:40] All right well insert miss minutes here a few moments later. Welcome back anybody who made the jump after to avoid the spoilers so yeah with that all being said I wanted to go into kind of

[00:32:00] what the MCU looks like going forward right so we've resolved both the strikes were back to releasing things we just got done talking about Loki I'll talk a little bit about Marvel but the

[00:32:09] Marvel's don't want can't spoil it for David because he hasn't watched it yet so for all you who haven't who are in that same boat guess what you don't have to worry about spoilers for for my Marvel's review

[00:32:23] so yeah current time right immediate future marvels just came out we're recording this on Sunday the 11th it just came out on Thursday the 9th so I went inside I think it is excellent I think

[00:32:43] the the reviews that I'm seeing of it so critics are mixed absolutely new that was gonna happen this is one of those movies we were talking with some of the other guys on the network

[00:32:54] about in that context we were talking about haunted mansion about how like a critic score for a movie like that should be kind of low and I think that miss Marvel's falls into that same concept

[00:33:08] where like the critics reception should be a little bit lower right it should be in the 60s range because this is the type of movie where it it isn't for everybody but it is very good it's the shortest

[00:33:22] movie in the MCU 2 date clocking in at an hour and 45 minutes I think it uses all of that uses that all of that time well the last two scenes are phenomenal there is there is no post

[00:33:38] credit scene so if you want to sit around and watch all the credits more power to you like definitely celebrate those folks who are deep into the credits I definitely encourage that every time but

[00:33:48] you're not gonna get any more content after credits you get a mid-credits scene but that's all I think the Marvel's is I get's wonderful and that's not just me being in the MCU guy who also

[00:34:04] thought that like Thor Dark World was also good I do genuinely think the Marvel's is of it if you meet it where it's at it's it's very good it's not trying to be more than an hour and 45

[00:34:20] minutes of a movie it's not trying to be anything more than a popcorn movie you sit down by your popcorn enjoy it honestly you could probably watch it in a vacuum it does enough re-telling of

[00:34:32] of the where how we got there you could probably just sit down and watch it without watching anything else okay so I have a few questions for you yeah so I think you partially answer one which is

[00:34:44] do you have to have much background knowledge slash if you had to watch one thing right before what would you watch oh no you don't need too much background knowledge a lot of it is re-told

[00:34:59] in the movie okay the important stuff is re-tolding the movie okay um the theater when you went to see it now you went opening night so I'm assuming it was a pretty jam pack theater folks are pretty engaged

[00:35:10] pretty rock us it was it so that's one of the interesting things and I think real quick the one thing to watch before is Miss Marvel I will say that that's okay get the feeling

[00:35:23] for Miss Marvel the Captain Marvel whatever I like Captain Marvel a lot it's a great movie wand division is is good for getting you into where Monica Rambog came from but Miss Marvel is absolutely the thing you need to watch before this because yeah that establishes Miss Marvel

[00:35:42] really well and I think it's also the best out of those three projects yeah I've heard it not the best but anyway but yeah but but if heard like you don't have to have like

[00:35:52] steady secret invasion like the super fill like they'll do things to make it easy and digest which I'm also not sure that this happens after secret invasion there's a lot about it that I'm not certain it lands after secret invasion

[00:36:08] oh that strikes fury dies in secret invasion bummer kidding no no there's a lot there and and that's actually something I haven't seen any discourse online about that but that is a critique I had is like the timeline of it all is a

[00:36:22] little bit confusing and so I'll be interested to see when they come out and they say like here's where land what they go to Disney plus and they put it in the timeline order or whatever

[00:36:30] I will be curious to see where it goes um to get to your question about the theater and the experience in the theater um my theater the upper section was full right most movie theaters you kind of have

[00:36:42] an upper section an aisle and then the lower section the lower section was nearly empty which I think is disappointing and I think I was actually talking on discord the other day

[00:36:55] in our Marvel chat it was the night that I watched it and Marie who's on the discord channel she she likes Marvel stuff and that's where to stuff and I think she listens to this podcast

[00:37:09] but she she was like wait there's a new Marvel movie out um which I mean for one I it is pretty tough to miss the marketing for it but I think that that this one did catch a lot of

[00:37:23] people by surprise mostly because they couldn't do a lot of marketing right the actors were struck they couldn't do press tours which is unfortunate because this would have been a really fun

[00:37:34] murder that would have really helped a lot it would have helped a lot and it would have been fun man like a monvalony hanging out with Brie Larson hanging out with Tiona Perish would have been

[00:37:45] super fun we would have got so many funny clips and stuff out of those interviews and it's disappointing that we don't really get that but um yeah when you send me the text about

[00:37:57] the sag actress strike being resolved I was like oh quick book about the t-shirt like get out there right I'm thirsty than out of the thing hopefully they can they can do some press for

[00:38:08] it quickly and I know you're saying the word on the socials quickly trying to you know pump it up if you will yeah I do think it has legs I do think this movie ultimately like overall review

[00:38:22] it's definitely for the it's it's for the fans but I don't say that in the sense that like you have to be a mega fan to watch it it is a it is an entertaining movie it is not trying to be

[00:38:33] anything more than that and I do think it has legs to it I think I think the fan reviews the fan sent me and maybe it's just my algorithm but the fan sent me is generally good

[00:38:44] the like I say the critics sent me is mixed it's gonna have a terrible opening weekend I'm gonna tell you that now but I do think it's got it's gonna sit in the theaters for a while

[00:38:57] and it's going to sit there collecting you know a decent haul every week okay two questions for you then we'll move on one who's your MVP assuming you can have an empty this out of spoiler you

[00:39:10] know Tony Stark what like but who's your MVP and then top third middle third bottom third I'm gonna step out of my normal so normally I pick a character I'm gonna pick an actor

[00:39:22] and I'm gonna say I'm on Velani okay I think she she stole the show over and over and over again and then I would say I would say mid third only because they're they're like there's probably 15

[00:39:40] movies or 15 movies in the MC that are better than it it it's good it's not you know it it's not life changing really great okay do you like it more or less than Captain Marvel I'd have

[00:39:53] their different yeah I like it I would say more than Captain Marvel if only because Brie Larson gets to actually be Brie Larson in this movie okay um I think that that has been

[00:40:10] the Achilles heel of Captain Marvel to this point is they have forced her into being kind of boring and she gets to be Zayney she gets to be goofy she gets to be fun in in the marbles and

[00:40:27] so I think that that improves it okay well hopefully her character yeah I mean her character in Captain Marvel and even in the follow up movies like seems a little flourish like little stiff

[00:40:39] little like little wooden and so if she's able to evolve if if Marvel writers like hey women can be funny too right and and bring that that comedic element to it I'm down for that so I'm

[00:40:53] looking forward to I'm gonna try to watch it this weekend so moving on with the immediate future in what I did not expect to happen I think I've been on record on this show not expecting this to happen

[00:41:06] Disney released a press release that detailed its holiday slate and they included what if season two in there so what if season two they don't have a release date but it's coming out in the holiday season

[00:41:18] which we're halfway through November as we're recording this so uh yeah sometimes soon we're gonna get what if season two yeah not wildly surprising we kind of forgot about it the worth the

[00:41:32] was that there was X-Men 97 I think also to animated series that do not require I mean require voice actors but don't require you know kind of actors on film and I think in my mind I felt like

[00:41:48] that both of those properties but especially what if which I heard was like kind of sort of done issue if you will yeah that they just took off the books but you know who knows maybe they're

[00:41:58] bringing them back just to build a little buzz and we'll excitement for what has been a bit of a you know a drive run if you will yeah and what will be a content drought and we'll get to that here

[00:42:10] in a second but um but yeah and then we actually got a trailer and a release date for Echo so Echo has been kind of kicked down the line a whole bunch of times and there's a lot of interesting

[00:42:28] things about this and you know on the surface it's like oh this bad project has been kicked down the line we heard so the Kevin Feige hated the original cut and said scrap it all and somebody

[00:42:40] was like no just release it all at the same time you know there was kind of this this punting it down the road um it is releasing January 17th 2024 and will stay on both Disney plus and Hulu it's

[00:42:53] co-releasing on Hulu and Disney plus which will become one app here eventually but um it is co-releasing on the two services and we'll stay on Hulu into May and it a couple of interesting things that I

[00:43:09] want to call out they're giving it what's called the spotlight a Marvel spotlight designation which what that designation indicates is you can enjoy it without any other knowledge which is really interesting to me that this is what they choose to do that with since these characters were introduced

[00:43:27] in another show um so that's kind of weird like moonlight maybe moonlight getting the spotlight designation that would make a lot of sense you know retroactively developing this this designation

[00:43:42] but giving it to Echo is is a little bit strange to me because truthfully you know yes you can probably enjoy it and that's their ideas like hey they're getting a lot of feedback that like

[00:43:53] why do I got to watch 30 movies and half a dozen TV shows just to enjoy your next movie that's for nerds right right um but you know here this is something you know maybe that you can

[00:44:08] the first one's free kind of idea right here here's the one that you don't have to invest in to watch um which is interesting yeah and and I saw the spotlight thing to your point around

[00:44:20] here's something you can consume on its own you don't have to have much background knowledge bring the on kids to watch it because it's gonna be nice oh I didn't see next bullet points sorry yeah yeah that's the other interesting things so this will be our our first

[00:44:37] for a in the main line MCU into more mature content right so this is getting this is getting a TV M.A. 17 badge um which I think that's so here's my running theory and David got check me here

[00:44:54] I think that the cut the that Kevin Fige saw where he said this is trash we can't release this was there attempt at a you know TV 13 PG 13 or whatever the worst rating that they could

[00:45:11] get away with on Disney plus direct um and somebody tried to cut together a version of echo that was not mature it was very it fit into the Disney brand if it into the the like

[00:45:29] not mature the nice version of it um and I think that that's what Fige said not this doesn't work and so at some point somebody made the business decision to say you know what we're going to have

[00:45:43] to go mature with Deadpool right Deadpool 3 is room or to have an R rating and so why don't we just rip that bandade off with a TV show and kind of gave some some leeway to re-cut echo back to a more

[00:45:59] mature show and that in turn has made it better and I and like the trailer has me pretty excited I'm not gonna lie it looks pretty cool and I know trailers can you know be deceiving but um

[00:46:14] yeah I think I think the maturity allowing it to be mature has maybe turned a corner for this project well as anyone who listened to the Avengers super secret spoiler show where I went into my

[00:46:32] tinfoil hat conspiracy theories let me speak as a subject matter expert um no kidding I do think I will never know well I'm sorry we will at some point in time now we do not know now

[00:46:47] like what was presented to Kevin Feige and what cost and to have the reaction of like this is not working right because this went through a lot of bumps I can I like the idea that they

[00:46:59] presented something that was edited for the Disney plus streaming series and they're like this is just too soft and that tracks with what we know from seeing daredevil on Netflix Cage Jessica Jones iron fist and and so those were definitely much

[00:47:31] gridier and darker and grimmer and and um just calls to mind just the the artwork of Frank what's his last name my camera both. Frank Miller yeah that very kind like that that kind of

[00:47:48] grimy dirty not dirty dirty. I mean I mean like but like the kind of rough around it like that's now if it if they said hey here's the kind of clean shiny version have a great day and all

[00:47:58] like as doesn't work and they go to the darker version I'm down with that. I too like the trailer I too think that at some point in time you will have to like you said rip the bandade off

[00:48:14] and have content which is not just PG 13 that's on Disney plus unless you just want to have Deadpool and this show and other stuff resigned to you know Disney plus plus or Hulu or some

[00:48:28] other arm if you won't just doesn't really make sense. Yeah yeah well I'm hopeful for echo I mean it's gonna fill a void right it'll fill void between um between here where we have the marbles and

[00:48:47] Loki and then I'm about to talk about the delays that resulted from the strike but um you know I am hopeful for echo and I hope it's good and um you know I think it can be good

[00:49:04] I did see that her power slate is gonna be completely switched up the printer said that her power slate in the comics is quote lame. I saw that too. I like hey I like the just the

[00:49:20] person saying hey look this is the only thing I'm ever gonna be able to write for Marvel Studios I'm going at guns blazing and I'm just gonna call the comic book character lame. Oh it's funny.

[00:49:31] We need to get Joanne Robinson on writing a book about what the version of echo that uh the Kevin Feige so I'd be great I'm pretty old. I'm I have you I've you started her book yet

[00:49:44] I have not yet how are you how are you going on it um I it's great like I find myself the part that's tough for me as I just jump around like you know just short and tense oh let me read

[00:49:55] about this thing oh yeah and oh I saw something about gardens and got some married the chapter about that it's really it's really good though it's uh uh rain in the MCU um it's great for recommending people

[00:50:06] so let's talk about brand you want to talk about the delays and then we can chat about like where how we're feeling about everything yeah for sure for sure yeah so so day after the strike

[00:50:17] Ryan Reynolds was coming out he was saying you know deadpool 3 will still be out some earth 2024 which he wasn't wrong um but the next day marvel did release all their delays right and this was expected

[00:50:31] we knew there was no way that you were gonna go 118 days with no filming on these projects and not see some sort of delay that that was going to happen uh so deadpool 3 moves off of May 2024

[00:50:48] and into July of of 2024 so from May 3rd to July 26th um so that does vacate uh that that gives us our first non-COVID well I don't non-COVID's the wrong word to say as we're facing

[00:51:05] you know more surges and stuff but our first uh the first time that that conceivably movie theaters will be open in May and we don't have a Marvel movie coming out um in May since I think one T

[00:51:22] what do I say 2012 I think it's been a while it's been a while it's been a while so marvel moves off of a very traditional date for it for them to be releasing in movie

[00:51:36] to July 26th July 26th probably sounds familiar because that was the slot filled by Captain America new world order Captain America new world order moves off of July 26th 2024 to Valentine's Day 2025 so February 14th 2025 that date probably sounds a little familiar because that was previously held by

[00:51:59] blade um blade moves off of February 14th 2025 all the way back to November 7th 2025 and then the thunder bolts which was supposed to be in between there backed off of December 20th 2024

[00:52:20] to July 25th 2025 so now to put that all in order if you weren't keeping score at home you've got deadpool as the only movie in 2024 coming out July 26th 2024 and then three movies slated for 2025

[00:52:37] Captain America new world order slated for February 14th of 2025 thunder bolts slotted for July 25th of 2025 and blades slotted for November 7th of 2025 so deadpool moves get shifted by about two months Captain America new world order thunder bolts both get shifted by about seven months

[00:53:06] and blade gets shifted about nine months I've heard that blade has gone through a number of writers and I wouldn't be surprised I don't I don't know that they've done anything on it yet

[00:53:21] I wouldn't be surprised if that shifts off there at the end of the day just guys it's a dude with a blade and some vampires like let's not it's not that complex you know um and the other thing

[00:53:34] had heard on the blade movie one of the other things just causing the sender lay was there was some question is to the amount that they wanted to spend on the movie and at one point

[00:53:44] time saying they wanted to I think they're looking at some of the budgets and some of these things are like hey can we make do we have to spend two million dollars on play I think that one point

[00:53:53] time they wanted to spend like less than a hundred million and again I don't know how much cost to make a movie these days I don't know how much cg I you have to put into it I don't know how many

[00:54:04] occasions you have to go to and unless definitely feels like one word you could do it on the cheap yeah I mean let's my her shale is getting like paid vast sums of money which knowing

[00:54:14] marble they're not because they're cheap um at least as a moment comes the actors I don't know why you could not do that on a more inexpensive budget um so of those I am the least optimist

[00:54:28] the blade will hit its mark but yeah that's just me yeah I think blade moves into I'm actually surprised that when they were moving things around they didn't move blade up like just one week from

[00:54:42] that release it on Halloween it's a vampire movie like dude what's that week gonna do I don't know it you know hey maybe there or um I don't know it's right around veterans day

[00:54:59] maybe it's long weekend yeah I don't know this but to your point like would have been a cool tie into uh to Halloween but whatever um but yeah so so the big thing of note here is we are

[00:55:13] down to one movie in 2024 we we we we have still some shows out there right we have echo that's dropping in 2024 their agatha cup of kios is still on the slate for 2024 no date really yet

[00:55:31] dead pool or not dead pool sorry dare devil maybe on the slate for 2024 who freaking knows what's going on with that that's going through turmoil and so yeah right now you know 2024 is looking

[00:55:46] like a light year for for marvel which I think to segue us into the how are you feeling I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that's a good thing I think slowing down I think resetting

[00:56:02] yourself a little bit um I've done a lot of research into audience sentiment around the the phases and that sort of thing and I and we're not quite where we want to share it yet but I do

[00:56:15] want to say um phase four the average audience sentiment of phase four is almost identical to phase two and those are the best two phases as far as average audience sentiment of the whole MCU and so

[00:56:34] everybody is talking about the faltering MCU the MCs falling apart these things ultimately you have two things that failed in the MCU right now you have quantumania and you have secret invasion

[00:56:46] and so I one having seen marvels which you know David hasn't and we'll get to where David's feeling about the MCU here in a second but I'm actually feeling okay about it and I think slowing

[00:56:59] down is the right choice right it kind of puts those I'm gonna say haters right the the folks who are like ah you know burnout on superhero movies blah blah blah put that to rest a little bit

[00:57:14] let's let's pull back let's rain it in a little bit let's make a little bit less contact let's slow it down let's let everybody wet their appetites or you know get their appetites up a

[00:57:25] little bit and and get a little bit of interest built back up but I don't think you have to go full like shut down rebuild mode like I I know has been suggested a couple times of like we're going

[00:57:39] to reboot with you know the original Avengers is gonna reboot and we're gonna take Kang Dynasty off the board and secret wars off the board and that's all gonna get scrapped and

[00:57:51] I don't know that we're there um I think we're we're at a point where it's like yeah pump the brakes a little bit you know maybe we got a little bit over ambitious but not

[00:58:05] I don't think it's I don't think it's pull the shoot time yet how about you David? Yeah I don't think so either I think um I think when you look at the recent content so before we got to Loki you know we'd had

[00:58:22] fresh my recollection we'd had quantumania guarding the galaxy 3 it was last Disney plus show that was before that wasn't Moon Knight it was a secret invasion secret invasion yeah and it was kind of like second vision little bit of a I mean it's okay just wasn't great

[00:58:43] quantumania was a stumble. Gernin's galaxy 3 was good but there was element of like have we kind of has marble lost its way, it's lost its mojo is it losing focus is it losing steam

[00:58:53] or people tired of super hero movies and it may be that some of those things turn out to be true I think taking slowing down focusing on quality over quantity and and really kind of to a certain

[00:59:11] extent honestly things like the writer strike things like the Jonathan major stuff like might have been a positive thing for them to kind of pause and reset so there was famously kind of the meeting and meeting in Palm Springs I think earlier in this phase and then we're

[00:59:34] kind of looking at the results from quantumania we're looking at things that were going on the news and kind of re-wondering like are we drinking our cool it what's the future going to be

[00:59:42] and this might be a good time for them to level set and you know focus on storytelling that is the kind of heart-cons back to where we were maybe earlier in Marvel like

[00:59:58] getting like that kind of excitement the you know some stories don't have to be super duper complex then you have to have good characters you have to have good stories and I'm kind of guardily optimistic

[01:00:11] I think Loki was very very good I think if you took the two series together and and grated it it's probably a nine out of ten stars if you will and that's good that's like

[01:00:26] you know if you're looking at like if you think of Marvel as a stock it was kind of dipping down and kind of tiped up again you said the marvels the marvels the movie was good so that's another

[01:00:35] tick in the right direction you and I thought that those were two really important properties this year and it seems like for both of them they did pretty well so you know I'm I'm

[01:00:46] guardedly optimistic you know I don't have huge high hopes for echo if it's if it's solid if it's good great if you know I'm sure Disney's taking the perspective like we don't have any other content

[01:00:59] even it's terrible it's like okay it's it's out there and it's not right but right it's you know yeah I will be there for it right yeah yeah ultimately echo echoes the important thing that echo

[01:01:12] does is exist yeah just simply by existing it's it's doing its job and so yeah and I the other thing that I I heart can back to in our main show you know we're in the throes of phase two right we

[01:01:30] just we just released guardians of the galaxy and actually spoiler alert for if you're listening we did a marathon recording session today so we literally just recorded age of Ultron right before

[01:01:43] recording this um and again I'm I am preparing a really a lot of research and maybe our next people will be more of this but what started me down this path was thinking about what do other phases

[01:02:00] look like right and phase five here second phase of the saga if you will probably the most analogous two phase two right because if you take phase four and you're like phase four is basically phase one

[01:02:16] and you're like okay cool so phase two is phase five we're two movies in three movies into phase five right we're quantumania guardians of the galaxy or guardians of galaxy three and the marbles the marbles yep in that same space in phase two you were

[01:02:43] Thor the dark world Iron Man 3 and Guardians of the galaxy one or no sorry sorry Captain America Winter Soldier Captain America Winter Soldier not Guardians of the galaxy one and so you had a stinker in um

[01:03:05] you basically have a stinker in both quantumania and Thor the dark world you have a some people love it some people hate it in Iron Man 3 and I'm going to guess that that's going to be the end result of the marbles and you have a pretty outright banger

[01:03:33] in Winter Soldier and Guardians 3. The only the distinction I would draw between the two those is that like what is what is the trend right right yeah the trend is different right there

[01:03:47] out of order from each other but and is Guardians of the galaxy three is that the exception because it is James gun and it's James gun who's making a marble movie and it James gun movie

[01:03:58] and not just like this is what the studio there I think they just let James gun do his own thing because they trusted him on it but I think they had three movies that they did that I think the

[01:04:10] three movies I think that they let James gun do his thing on Guardians 3 they let Sam Raimi do his thing on multiverse of madness and they let Tyco a TT do his thing on love and thunder

[01:04:29] and we just talked about this a little bit in our spoiler alert because this all man time warp okay I have to Loki by self here for a second but this will release before the thing we just

[01:04:44] recorded so you guys don't know what we just talked about but hey I'm gonna talk about it anyways I'm so confused right now yeah yeah it's so weird right but no so

[01:04:55] we talk about in our age of ultra an episode which is for those of you listening still to come but spoil a little bit of our own content here that Joss we didn't was so frustrated with the

[01:05:11] MCU because of the control that it did and I think they tested it out they tested it out like letting go over the reins whether intentional or not right there's a lot of reports that Kevin

[01:05:23] Fygy just couldn't be in two places at once so he had to let go of the reins but they tested letting go of the reins and they realized that that doesn't always work it works one maybe two out

[01:05:36] of three times and so I think I think we move forward I think I think we have watched Marvel learn a lot over the phase four and phase five and I maybe it's the optimistic me I'm hopeful for Marvel going

[01:05:51] forward because I think I'm seeing you know as a people leader in my day to day day job the big thing I always focus on is like proof of of learning and I think we're seeing that in

[01:06:09] Marvel I think we're seeing that they're learning things and the actions they're taking show that to your base who compare the to the ultra on AI that we saw yeah okay now I think that's right

[01:06:21] I think it's I think you have to they have to adapt they have to you know you could you could have a blueprint for how you want the the house to look but you have to listen to feedback otherwise you're

[01:06:32] going to end up with something that is your vision but they're not the vision of the fans right absolutely absolutely well I do have one more fun story but before we do that we're going to take

[01:06:42] a quick commercial break and then we'll be right back it's amazing that you never see these heroes hydrate I mean there's no way that they went through the whole battle of New York without needing

[01:06:51] a crush or water break or something I know for me I can't even make it through the work day without my water bottle for those days where water alone just doesn't cut it I love to add some liquid

[01:06:59] IV to the make their little tubes make it super convenient to toss them in a backpack and go on an adventure for me the lemon lime flavor is really the best it's almost like a little margarita

[01:07:09] but it helps your hangover instead of causing one one stick of liquid IV in 16 ounces of water hydrate you two times faster and more efficiently than water alone real people real flavor real

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[01:07:34] that's p-u-n-y-p-o-d at liquidiv.com all right and we are back so we talk so just one last story here and I would just want to end on a fun one right make it short sweet to the point

[01:07:53] so this week my Christmas present got announced they announced a Avengers Lego it's the Avengers Tower in Lego form this thing looks freaking sweet quick stats on it 521 pieces 32 many things that is the most many things of any set ever and it is the most pieces of any

[01:08:27] Marvel Lego set so far this thing looks sweet they've got they're including two captain america so that in one of the rooms you can recreate the america's ass scene there's like the the iron

[01:08:44] legion or some of the many fix that are in there that we just let we just but you guys will soon hear about an age of wool tron um the price tag on this thing though

[01:08:56] David well you are you've seen the notes I've got seen I don't know the price all right prices right it what do you guess $200 but I mean well I guess you didn't go over $500 yeah yeah all right but I mean it's 5000 pieces

[01:09:19] like yeah I know it's been dry man super like Lego is expensive I want to say that but it's worth it like the the smiles per mile if you will of Legos is totally there but yeah I it's pretty sweet

[01:09:35] I'll try and post some pictures to socials of the the sad I think actually I shared it when it got announced but it it looks pretty rad so um Christmas around the quarter Lisa there you go

[01:09:48] exactly or pop a Jason hey pop a Jason research need to show yeah you be like you could be like rocker I need that prosthetic I need that I need that Avengers tower

[01:10:02] for the podcast like really okay exactly all right guys well let's go ahead we'll close it out here I'll remind you go check out our socials puny pod p u and y p o d wherever you find your good

[01:10:16] socials serve we are also we changed our name on pod catchers so it's Marvel fandom podcast by puny pod really that was just capture who we are a little bit better as well as just kind of trying

[01:10:34] maybe make us easier to find for people looking for a Marvel fandom podcast you can also check me out on socials so I am puny rgh on instagram you can also go check me out on TikTok that's Ewok ewok ew

[01:10:51] ew i am filming our marathon session of recording today I've filmed a time lapse I'm gonna post that to TikTok so you guys get to see kind of how the sausage is made a little bit of behind the scenes

[01:11:06] so that'll be cool um David anything you want to mention before we get out of here no man this is a fun episode I appreciate everyone listening absolutely absolutely well guys

[01:11:19] we will see you next time when you hear what we recorded last time on Avengers the Edge Voltron see you guys enough said